nb2 Posted 1 July , 2017 Share Posted 1 July , 2017 Hi there This is my first post here. I noticed on a Bavarian archive photo, some trenches that suppose to be intact, so I went there today. The trench system can be tracked on the ground easily from the photo. The upper part of it is covered by the electric company building, the lower part starts just by the road. No future develop plan to this area, to my understanding. The exact location is: 31.792N, 35.181E I think this system is the most well preserved in the area, in addition to mt. Hertzel (31.774N, 35.168E) and givat haarbaa (31.734N, 35.213E). Photos: 1. general view and WWI aerial photo 2. hi-res jerusalem GIS 3-8 trenches bottom to top. on no.8 you can see how the building covers the upper part. 9. general view, on the right side is the cemetery more trenches used to be and now gone. Nir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Henschke Posted 1 July , 2017 Share Posted 1 July , 2017 Fantastic first post. Welcome to the forum. Chris Henschke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 1 July , 2017 Share Posted 1 July , 2017 Great find @nb2. @Eran Tearosh, @michaeldr and I were looking at the Mitspe Kerem trenches in March and we talked about these trenches (which I call the Deir Yesin position) but we didn't have a look for them on the ground. Thank you for sharing this with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 1 July , 2017 Share Posted 1 July , 2017 Astounding condition! Thanks for posting! And welcome also, nb2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eran Tearosh Posted 1 July , 2017 Share Posted 1 July , 2017 (edited) Welcome aboard Nir! Great find - We always concentrated on the western side of the Dier Yassin redoubt (Which, unfortunately, doesn’t exist any more due to the 20th century land development) and missed out that North part of this hill. As to Givat HaAarbaa - Not familiar with Ottoman remnants there. Thought they were all Jordanian. There is another trench system at Gilo forest - JNF guys think it is WWI, and it sure looks like that, but I feel it's Jordanian (Due to location, area covered and lack of existence in WWI maps). I am planning some signposting at Mitzpe Karem during the next few months - maybe we can extend that to your finding as well. Let's try to do something together on that. Eran Edited 1 July , 2017 by Eran Tearosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaeldr Posted 1 July , 2017 Share Posted 1 July , 2017 Welcome to the GWF and thank you so much for sharing this Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb2 Posted 1 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 1 July , 2017 Thanks all. There is one aerial photo of gilo as I remember, this may be an easy check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjack91 Posted 2 July , 2017 Share Posted 2 July , 2017 Great photos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eran Tearosh Posted 2 July , 2017 Share Posted 2 July , 2017 (edited) I looked a little bit into this. Seems we are looking on this trench system (marked in a blue circle): Indeed, I never looked in that direction, being a bit behind the front line itself, however, quite an interesting and important location, as it was covering a crucial part of the ancient road to Jerusalem (Known as The Roman Road. At that stage, most of the traffic used the newer road, a bit to the North) and covering the Liver & Heart redoubts from the South. Only a part of The Roman Road is visible today. The road seen in nb2's photos are higher on the slope, and constructed much later in time. This section of the line was attacked by 2/17 Battalion, 180th Brigade, 60th Division. From what I found, their part (Including "our" trench) was taken with relative ease, compared to the 2/18 on their left and especially the 2/19 on their right. Did the 2/17 Battalion (Poplar & Stepney Rifles) publish a book? Eran Edited 2 July , 2017 by Eran Tearosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb2 Posted 3 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 July , 2017 I took a photo of the roman road (from the above trench), it is not in use today mostly it's lower part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb2 Posted 8 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 8 July , 2017 Quote Just to add to the point on gilo, I went through the trench map and bavarian photo for the southern part of the Jerusalem, found that most of the trenches are indeed under the neighborhood. There may be some still waiting to be found. I did find a small one down close to the railway track to Jaffa (actually close to the new train station), not 100% sure it's authentic. Much more erosed and covered with vegetation,, but has the __| ̅ |___| ̅ |__ pattern and in the same spot as the photo. Location: 31.7462N, 35.1856E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 8 July , 2017 Share Posted 8 July , 2017 Dear nb2, Good work! Kindest regards, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eran Tearosh Posted 8 July , 2017 Share Posted 8 July , 2017 Hi Nir, Great work!! The Bavarian photo relates (As it seems to me) to the area between Malha (Left of the photo) to Sherafet (On the right). Have you found the trenches I mentioned to you, those that are in Gilo forest? As I said to you, that's quite an impressive line there, but the direction is a bit strange (I'm not 100% certain it's Great War trenches). It could help if a photo of the area just south of the one you used this time exists. As to a updated aerial photo of this trench line (The Gilo one) - Tried Google Earth, but can't see anything through the trees. Here a few photos from there, January 2017: See you soon, Eran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb2 Posted 8 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 8 July , 2017 Hi Eran Those photos are indeed interesting. You are right, the link to the aerial photo of gilo is here: http://www.gda-old.bayern.de/bestaende/viewer/viewer.php?show=/bestaende/palaestina/bayhsta_bs_palaestina_0924 Note that north is opposite to the indicated arrow. I made an overlay of that bavarian photo and the trench map on google earth, each has a different trench line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eran Tearosh Posted 9 July , 2017 Share Posted 9 July , 2017 (edited) Hi Nir, Again - Great work! It is possible that the trenches in Gilo forest are these that I marked on this photo. It seems that these trenches are built on a slope, in a way that it protects from an attack from the North to the South (towards Beit Gala & Bethlehem) instead of protecting the North (Jerusalem) from a Southern attack! That's the reason I hesitated that these trenches belong to the Great War period. But, this Bavarian photo proves that was the case! But Why?! What's the logic? Strange! To clarify what I mean - from this map we see that Ottoman trenches are spread as a crescent, protecting the main road from Bethlehem to Jerusalem. The trenches in Gilo forest are West of Sherafat. Eran Edited 9 July , 2017 by Eran Tearosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb2 Posted 9 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2017 Not sure. I suspect that the trenches in Gilo forest are indeed west of Sherafat. This area is not covered by the bavarian photos (just between them). The area you marked in red on the photo in not in gilo forest, but on the southern slope facing Beit Gala (south is up). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eran Tearosh Posted 9 July , 2017 Share Posted 9 July , 2017 (edited) What do you mean - South is up? Where is that roundabout (Which streets?)? In the Bavarian Photo - the North is towards the upper-left corner. I think that fits what I described. Edited 9 July , 2017 by Eran Tearosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 9 July , 2017 Share Posted 9 July , 2017 I am going to have to amend my tour plan in order to take in these extra trenches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eran Tearosh Posted 9 July , 2017 Share Posted 9 July , 2017 And Balin / Berkusia, and..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 9 July , 2017 Share Posted 9 July , 2017 Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb2 Posted 9 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2017 36 minutes ago, Eran Tearosh said: What do you mean - South is up? Where is that roundabout (Which streets?)? In the Bavarian Photo - the North is towards the upper-left corner. I think that fits what I described. On photo no. 924 linked in comment #14, the white arrow (which supposed to point to north) is not correct. It is almost points to the south. This is why I wrote south is up. The houses in the upper edge are part of Bet-Jalla. The roundabout is here: 31.7303N, 35.1850E Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eran Tearosh Posted 9 July , 2017 Share Posted 9 July , 2017 (edited) Thanks. Now topography fits what I know. The Gilo ridge looks all right now. Wow! Good thing you noticed that 100 year old mistake! Have you found a photo of the sector of Gilo forest? The question is back on - the direction these trenches are facing is quite confusing. Edited 9 July , 2017 by Eran Tearosh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb2 Posted 9 July , 2017 Author Share Posted 9 July , 2017 2 hours ago, Eran Tearosh said: Have you found a photo of the sector of Gilo forest? The question is back on - the direction these trenches are facing is quite confusing. No. I agree. They must wanted to be prepared for an attack from the south. The photo is from 29.11.17, just before the attack. A personal note - I cannot even imagine the harsh conditions of digging those trenches, on the rocky land and summer heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assafx Posted 14 July , 2017 Share Posted 14 July , 2017 (edited) Nir, welcome to the forum. some parts of Gilo forest (above ein yael) are going to be developed, i'm not sure about the part that you've presented. Eran, as far as i know, there is no regimental history of the 2/17. Assaf Edited 14 July , 2017 by assafx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nb2 Posted 23 January , 2018 Author Share Posted 23 January , 2018 Found another one that still there, on the mountain north to the main road to Jerusalem. First photo is from Harvard collection (link), taken 1937. The trench on the left is covered with cemetery but the one just below the camera (this is an aerial photo) exist. It's easy to see that both trenches control the road to the city from high position. Second photo is the same angle from google earth. Third photo is hi-res where the trench is more visible due to vegetation. Exact location: 31.805440N 35.176390E Nir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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