Churchill's Secret War WIth Lenin: British and Commonwealth Military Intervention in the Russian Civil War, 1918-20

[wrightdw]

On 10/11/2020 at 10:27, josquin said:

Damien,

 

Adding to your June 2nd post, listing the V.C. recipients who served in the Russia expedition, I am listing General Grogan's forenames:

Lt. Col. (T/Brig. Gen.) George William St.George Grogan (Worcestershire Regiment), as stated in his V.C. award citation.

 

Josquin

Thanks Josquin, added to the post above. There aren't too many photographs of Grogan about. I have attached the best image I have of him which is probably pre-WW1. He is wearing the ribbon of the Africa General Service Medal (1902-56) although I am unsure which clasp/s he was awarded.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Africa_General_Service_Medal

 

Edited 24 November , 2020 by wrightdw

[wrightdw]

On 13/11/2020 at 07:13, James A Pratt III said:

If you go to the forum.axishistory.com and landships.com you can find more info on the Mk V tanks pictured

from my notes and the Osprey books on Armored units of the Russian Civil war

 

no 9146 was knocked out in France in October 1918. Repaired and sent to Russia and captured in Georgia in 1920. was on display in Smolensk then sent to Berlin

 

no 9168 "Audacious" there is a picture of this tank on wiki Russian Civil War and in the one of the Osprey books. It took part in the 1919 advance and retreat to Moscow by the White Army. It then took part in the final battles of the White Army in south Russia and was captured in Sevastopol in November 1920 in a badly damaged state.

Thanks James, the history of these tanks is very interesting. The one in Archangel, Russia was left exposed to the elements for decades but was fully restored several years ago and is now kept in a self-contained display. The Osprey books are a useful resource as you say:

 

https://ospreypublishing.com/armored-units-of-the-russian-civil-war-pb

 

https://ospreypublishing.com/armored-units-of-the-russian-civil-war?___store=osprey_rst

[wrightdw]

The Russian Civil War and Irish War of Independence 1919-21

 

21 November 1920

 

Dublin, Ireland

 

A coordinated coup de main operation planned by Irish Republican Army leader Michael Collins was carried out by IRA gunmen who assassinated twelve men suspected of being British agents, a Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC) policeman and two Auxiliary Division (‘Auxies’) paramilitary policemen.

 

Some of the gunmen were suspected to have fled into the crowd of a Gaelic football game at Croke Park, a large number of ‘Black and Tans’ (paramilitary recruits, mostly ex-soldiers brought from England to bolster the RIC) and ‘Auxies’ (similar to the Black and Tans but tasked with counter-insurgency operations) arrived at the stadium in trucks with orders to guard the exits and search each man leaving the stadium.

 

Some ticket sellers at the gates were confused for IRA lookouts, the Black and Tans fired warning shots into the air and pursued the ticket sellers as they fled into the stadium. There was confusion as to who was doing the shooting, some of the policemen believed the IRA ‘sentries’ had opened fire first. Immediately upon entering the stadium the Black and Tans opened fire, some continued to shoot over the heads of the crowd whilst others aimed and fired directly at the spectators as they fled. An armoured car outside the stadium opened fire with a machine gun over the heads of the fleeing crowd in a senseless attempt to stop them.

 

Twelve innocent spectators were killed and two others crushed to death in the frantic stampede to escape, many more were shot and wounded. Among the dead was a woman, Jane Boyle aged 26 who had gone to the match with her fiancée and was due to be married five days later and three children, John William Scott (14), William Robinson (11) and Jerome O’Leary (10). Two football players were shot, Jim Egan who survived and Michael Hogan (24) who died.

 

One revolver was recovered by the Black and Tans, a witness stated it had been thrown in his garden by a fleeing spectator. None of the spectators killed or wounded were suspected of any illegal activity. None of the Black and Tans were injured.

 

Later that night, three IRA officers held as prisoners of the British authorities in Dublin Castle were shot ‘whilst attempting to escape’ although it is likely they were extra-judicially executed in retaliation for the assassinations.

 

The day was thereafter dubbed ‘Bloody Sunday’ (Domhnach na Fola).

 

There is an interesting link between the events of ‘Bloody Sunday’ and the British campaign in support of White Russian forces in the Russian Civil War 1918-20.

A significant number of ‘Auxies’ (Auxiliary Division, Royal Irish Constabulary) had prior service with British forces in Russia 1918-20, so many in fact that it seems apparent that veterans of the post-war campaign in Russia were specifically targeted for recruitment into the Auxies. A number of Black and Tans and Auxies were quite frankly ‘rogues’ unsuitable for the type of work for which they were recruited. A number faced criminal proceedings for crimes (particularly theft and fraud) committed during and after service in Ireland.

 

KNOWN ‘Black and Tans’ AND ‘Auxies’ WHO PREVIOUSLY SERVED IN RUSSIA 1918-20 OF WHOM TWO WERE KILLED BY THE IRA, ONE ON BLOODY SUNDAY:

 

Parcell Rees BOWEN, MC, DFC and Bar (ex-RAF pilot). Assassinated by IRA 27 October 1920.

B. Carmarthen, Wales, 1893. Served as 2nd Lieutenant, Welsh Regiment on Gallipoli, 1915, Sinai and Palestine 1916-17 attd. Machine Gun Corps (awarded MC), transferred Royal Flying Corps late 1917, (awarded DFC for Palestine and Syria 1918), served with RAF North Russia, Dvina River, 1919 and awarded DFC Bar taking control of the aircraft after the pilot had passed out from wounds, himself wounded Bowen flew the aircraft 100 miles back to base from the rear cockpit. After hospitalisation, volunteered to work as a flying instructor for the fledgling Lithuanian Air Service 1919-20. On return to London in July 1920 he was recruited by the British Secret Service to work as a spy in Dublin, on 27 October 1920 his body was found in Merrion Street with a single .45 bullet wound, apparently the victim of a targeted IRA assassination before ‘Bloody Sunday’. Age 25 at the time of his death, his body was returned to Abergwili, Wales where he was buried with full military honours.

 

Henry James Angliss, DCM (ex-Army officer). Assassinated by IRA 21 November 1920.

B. Enniskillen, Ireland, 1892. Served Scottish Rifles, Highland Light Infantry, Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers and Machine Gun Corps 1914-18. Awarded DCM 1916. Served North Russia Relief Force, 1919. On return to England was recruited for intelligence work in Dublin. Assassinated in his bed at 22 Lower Mount Street Dublin on ‘Bloody Sunday’, 21 November 1920.

 

William Edward Johnston (ex-Army officer)

B. Belfast 1894. Served Royal Irish Rifles on Western Front and POW 21 March 1918 repatriated UK, December 1918. Served North Russia 1919. Served ADRIC, Ireland 1920-21. Stole £535 of ADRIC funds, this amount was later deducted from a compensation payment for injury.

 

William Charles Francis (ex. RAF officer)

B. London, 1899. Served North Russia 1919. ADRIC, Ireland 1920-21. Sentenced to 16 months prison for theft of £115 in 1926.

 

Frederick Aspill (ex-RN officer)

B. London, 1879. Served Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve 1915-17, Mercantile Marine Reserve (merchant seamen serving on merchant vessels requisitioned by the Admiralty for wartime service) 1917-18, North Russia 1919 (Mentioned in Despatches). ADRIC, Ireland 1920-21.

 

Ewen Cameron Bruce, DSO, MC (ex-Army officer)

B. Gloucs, 1890. RMC Sandhurst 1908-10, 2nd Lieutenant North Somerset Yeomanry, 1914, attached Royal Flying Corps and obtained pilots license March 1915, transferred Tank Corps 1916, badly wounded at Messines, July 1917 (awarded MC and arm amputated). After recovery continued to serve with a tank salvage company. Gassed, March 1918. Spent four months in Japan during 1918 with a special Tank Corps detachment, awarded Order of the Rising Sun. Tank Corps Detachment, South Russia 1919, took part in June 1919 capture of Tsaritsyn (later Stalingrad) in command of a British Mk. V tank, awarded DSO and Russian Order of St. George. Returned to UK and invalided in rank of Major as medically unfit for further service. Fined 24 Guineas for running illegal betting, April 1920, joined ADRIC, August 1920, dismissed as unsuitable for striking a civilian without cause several weeks later. In October 1920 robbed at gunpoint Kells Creamery, Co. Kilkenny taking away £75 and fled Ireland for England but was arrested three days later, Court Martialled, deprived of rank and stripped of his hard earned decorations and sentenced to 12 months prison. Accused of fraud to value of £70, 1923, declared bankruptcy, 1924. Died 1925.

 

Frank Montgomery Scott, MC (ex-Army officer)

B. Edinburgh, Scotland. 2nd Lieutenant, Royal Scots, Gallipoli 1915, Western Front 1916-18, awarded MC 1917, Captain, North Russia, Dvina River 1918-19. Joined ADRIC, August 1920-22, later Palestine Police, stabbed by former Arab policeman, 1930. D. Yorkshire, 1974.

 

Frederick Henry Wickham Guard, CMG, CBE, DSO (ex-Army officer)

B. Hampshire, 1889. Worked Canada and W. Africa before the war, commissioned West African Field Force, August 1914, 2nd Lieutenant, Hampshire Regiment, Western Front 1915-18, gassed 1917, awarded DSO, ELOPE Force, North Russia, 1918-19, awarded CMG, Croix de Guerre, Order of St. Vladimir. Relinquished commission in rank of Lieutenant Colonel, August 1919. Joined ADRIC, October 1920-22, later joined RAF Armoured Cars, Basrah, Iraq, 1922-25, awarded CBE. D. Hampshire, 1927 aged 37.

 

Allan Frederick Burke, MBE, MM (ex-Army officer)

B. South Australia, 1889. Served New Zealand forces 1914-18, Gallipoli 1915, Western Front 1916-18, Sergeant, ELOPE Force, North Russia 1918-19, awarded MM, Russian Cross of St. George, Captain, Adjutant Slavo-British Legion (mutinied 7 July 1919 murdering five British officers, Burke escaped), awarded MBE. Joined ADRIC 1920-21, permitted to resign on disciplinary grounds. D. Manchester, 1940.

 

Jack Ernest Selwyn Hollway, MM (ex-Army soldier)

B. Calcutta, India, 1899. Worked India and Ceylon. In UK 1918, commissioned 2nd Lieutenant, March 1919. Relinquished commission to enlist as other ranks for North Russia Relief Force. Served Dvina River, summer 1919 with 45th Royal Fusiliers, awarded MM for Sullivan VC action. Joined ADRIC October 1920-22. D. Surrey, 1961.

 

Reginald Hanhart Watts (ex-Royal Marine officer)

B. Newcastle, UK, 1896. 2nd Lieutenant, Royal Marines Light Infantry, 1914, served Gallipoli, badly wounded May 1915, gun shot wound right humerus and saw no further land service. Promoted Captain, 1918. Posted in 1919 to 6th Royal Marines Battalion tasked with garrison duties in post-war Germany. The battalion was instead diverted for service at Murmansk with North Russian Expeditionary Force. Several mutinies within the battalion took place in August and September resulting in the Court Martial of nearly 100 officers and Marines. Thirteen were sentenced to ‘Death’ however the sentences were commuted to imprisonment with hard labour after the King issued secret orders that no executions of British troops were to be carried out in respect of offenses committed in Russia after the Armistice. Watts had a mental breakdown during battle and was charged with ‘Cowardice’ (found Not Guilty) and ‘using words calculated to create alarm and despondency’ (Guilty) and was ordered to be dismissed from the Royal Marines however he was permitted to resign his commission. He was returned to UK in civilian clothes. Joined ADRIC, October 1920-21. D. Wales, 1968.

 

Samuel James Haines (ex-Mercantile Marine officer)

B. London, 1884. Royal Navy 1902-11, 1914-18. Joined Mercantile Marine, 1918. Served North Russia 1918-19, awarded Albert Medal for lifesaving and MBE. Joined ADRIC 1920-21. Rescued people from a cinema fire which killed two people, Kent, UK, 1929. Son Hugh James Haines, Royal Armoured Corps died in Burma, April 1945. D. Yarmouth, Norfolk, 1945.

 

Harold Shoosmith (ex-Army officer)

B. Russia, 1882. Enlisted Royal Flying Corps, 1916, commissioned 2nd Lieutenant, RFC and later RAF, March 1918. Served British Military Mission to White Russian General Denikin, South Russia 1919-20. Returned to UK for alcoholism, March 1920. Joined ADRIC 3 November 1920, discharged 6 November 1920 (3 days!). D. London, 1958.

 

Gordon Lloyd Owen Shiner (ex-RAF officer)

B. Warwickshire, 1898. 2nd Lieutenant, 18th London Regiment, 1915-18. Married 1918, served RAF Training Mission to White Russian General Denikin, South Russia 1919-20. Bigamously married in Russia and had a child with a Russian woman, leaving his wife. Joined ADRIC 1920. Accidentally shot (in crossfire?) by two ADRIC officers, November 1920, spent 6 months in hospital and 2 months convalescence. Discharged 1922. Sentenced to 2 years imprisonment for fraud, 1953. D. Essex, 1969.

 

Claud Alfred Leonard Pascoe, OBE (ex-Army officer)

B. London, 1887. Worked as reporter at Toronto Star, returned to UK, 1914. Enlisted 2nd King Edward’s Horse (The King’s Overseas Dominion Regiment), 1914-15, Captain, Machine Gun Corps 1916-18, Served British Military Mission to White Russian General Denikin, South Russia, 1919-20 as machine gun instructor, awarded OBE, Order of St. Stanislaus & St. Vladimir. Joined ADRIC, 1920-21. D. Toronto, Canada, 1960.

 

Thomas Girdwood MacFie, DSO, MC (ex-Army officer)

B. London, 1892. Enlisted Canadian Expeditionary Force, 1914, commissioned 2nd Lieutenant, 1915. Court Martialled, fraudulent use of cheques, 1916, dismissed from service. Enlisted 4th South African Infantry in UK, served Western Front 1917-18, awarded MC. Served ELOPE Force, North Russia 1918-19, awarded DSO. Military adviser to Lithuanian Air Corps 1919-20. Joined ADRIC 1920-21, resigned after embezzling funds. Arrested in Italy 1924 for stealing £10,000 from a club in Nice, sentenced to 3 years in a French prison. A number of fraud investigations followed over the years. D. London, 1941.

 

Richard John Andrews, DSO, MC (ex-Army officer)

B. Stoke Newington, 1876. Served Boer War with Imperial Yeomanry, worked with railways in Chile and Bolivia, enlisted Jan 1915, London Scottish, Served France, July 1915, returned to UK for Commission in Devon Regt., Feb. 1916, awarded MC, transferred Welsh Regiment 1917, Lieut-Col., awarded DSO, WIA, 24 November 1917, awarded Croix de Guerre, North Russia April 1919, adviser 5thNorth Russian Rifles (White Russian) at Onega when the men mutinied and went over to the Whites, one British officer killed. Taken POW by Red Army and held in Moscow until 1920. Repatriated to UK via Finland, April 1920, joined ADRIC October 1920, resigned from ADRIC, April 1921. Accidentally killed, January 1923.

 

Thomas Francis Patey Briggs, MBE (ex-Royal Navy officer)

B. Batoum, Russia, 1896. Family moved to UK, schooling HMS Conway (cadet training establishment) 1910-12, Midshipman, RNR, Feb. 1915, armed merchant cruisers, torpedoed onboard Alcantara during engagement with German ship Greif, Feb. 1916, both vessels sunk, later served torpedo boats 1918, North Russia 1918-19, demob. Jan. 1920, Joined ADRIC October 1920-January 1922. MBE 1946, Naval Store Dept., D. New Zealand, 1970.

 

William Graham Price (ex-Army officer)

B. London, 1888. E. Surrey Regt. 1913-18, Lieut. and QM, POW, 9 April 1918. Repatriated UK, Dec. 1918, North Russia 1919, Joined ADRIC October 1920-September 1921.

 

This is a must visit website for anyone interested in the topic, a tremendous amount of work has gone in to building up biographies of known Auxies in Ireland: https://www.theauxiliaries.com/

 

Edited 2 December , 2020 by wrightdw

[MelPack]

Excellent post !

 

I have been censured in the past for using the term 'criminal reactionaries' but these specimes seem to fit the bill.

[horatio2]

11 hours ago, wrightdw said:

Frederick Aspill (ex-RN officer)

B. London, 1879. Served Royal Naval Volunteer Reserve 1915-17, Mercantile Marine Reserve (merchant seamen serving on merchant vessels requisitioned by the Admiralty for wartime service) 1917-18, North Russia 1919 (Mentioned in Despatches). ADRIC, Ireland 1920-21.

An interesting bunch!

May I point out a couple of corrections to ASPILL? He did not serve as an RN officer. With previous service as an AB in the RN (1894-1899 - Invalided), he served in the RNVR (London Z/4396) from November 1915 to demob in April 1919. Iinitially he was in training for the RND but transferred to Sea Service in May 1916 (but he never served at sea in the RNVR). He reached the rate of Acting Petty Officer RNVR. He later served as Junior Officer MMR.

[Open Bolt]

On 30/11/2020 at 03:28, wrightdw said:

This is a must visit website for anyone interested in the topic, a tremendous amount of work has gone in to building up biographies of known Auxies in Ireland: https://www.theauxiliaries.com/

Yes, an excellent resource that starts with 'The stereotype of the average Auxiliary as a drunken lout, released from a British gaol, in order to run riot in Ireland appears to have been little researched.'

What might @corisande say?

[corisande]

16 minutes ago, Open Bolt said:

What might @corisande say?

 

He wrote that site

[58 Div Mule]

1 hour ago, corisande said:

Two books on the subject ‘Tudor’s Toughs’ and ‘The Auxies’. I have them both and recommend them strongly to anyone with an interest.

 

58 DM.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 1 December , 2020 by 58 Div Mule

[wrightdw]

I have added three more names of ex Russia 1918-20 men who subsequently volunteered for ADRIC to the list posted above:

 

Richard John Andrews, DSO, MC (ex-Army officer)

 

Thomas Francis Patey Briggs, MBE (ex-Royal Navy officer)

 

William Graham Price (ex-Army officer)

 

Their particulars were extracted from the following link, a huge amount of research has gone into compiling these biographies: http://www.clarelibrary.ie/eolas/coclare/history/browne_auxiliaries_part2.pdf

 

Thanks to Pat Twomey for the tip-off for this resource.

 

Andrews is well known to me as he was taken POW at Onega on 20 July 1919 when the White Russian troops he was advising mutinied and went over to the Reds. I have a photograph of him as a POW in Moscow in my book.

 

Edited 2 December , 2020 by wrightdw

[wrightdw]

General Brian Horrocks of XXX Corps ‘Bridge Too Far’ fame had 30 years earlier been wounded and taken POW near Armentieres in October 1914 and held in a POW camp which also held Russian officer prisoners captured on the Eastern Front. With little else to do he slowly became proficient in Russian language. A persistent escaper, on one attempt he nearly made Holland before capture for which he was awarded the MC for services in attempting to escape captivity (London Gazette 30 January 1920). Repatriated in December 1918, the following year he volunteered for service with the British Military Mission to White Russian Admiral Kolchak in Siberia where on 7 January 1920 he was one of 15 British and Canadian officers and men taken POW at Krasnoyarsk by the Red Army. The prisoners were transported 2,600 miles on the Trans-Siberian Railway to Moscow where they were held with British troops captured by the Reds on other fronts until release in October 1920 via Finland. Horrocks contracted typhus in Russia which was endemic at the time and was very seriously ill but survived. I believe I have identified him in the image below, bearing in mind that it was taken 25 years earlier.

[DavidD]

Interesting topic Damien and a great Book.

My grandfather was 19 during the campaign in Russia.

From what I can gather, whilst the Officers held a dance in Lerwick on there return from Archangel, the men had to load on coal to the ship for the rest of the journey back to England because of a strike?.Do you have any further information about this from your research?.

Just read the piece about Arthur Sullivan's (VC)alleged confrontation with a sergeant on their return.Very Funny.

Thanks.

Dave.

[wrightdw]

Hi David, I am not specifically familiar with the anecdote you describe. There were certainly a number of industrial strikes during 1919 including a Railway strike in September/October and soldiers having to coal themselves is certainly plausible. Regards, Damien

[James A Pratt III]

Damien the book "Russian And Soviet Battleships" by Stephen Mclanghin is going to be reprinted by Naval Institute press later this year according to ModelWarships.com

[wrightdw]

Pleased that my book was used as a reference for this video, "When Speedboats Crippled the Russian Fleet - Raid on Kronstadt Documentary".

I visited the military harbour in summer 2019 and was able to stand only a few meters from where the dramatic events took place 100 years earlier.

 

 

[wrightdw]

My book and maps were used as a source by Maj. Gordon Corrigan for his lecture 'The Russian Civil War 1918-20' which he presented to Western Front Association in December.

I can't find a copy of the presentation on that occasion however the same presentation to a different audience is available here:

 

[The Scorer]

I saw that presentation, and very good it was, too. 

I don't think that he gave you a credit, but I'd like to thank you for providing the information. 

[MaureenE]

Two histories where the regiments went to Russia, and an article,  available online

The Die-Hards in the Great War. A History of the Duke of Cambridge’s Own (Middlesex Regiment), 1914-1919. Volume 2 1916-1919 by Everard Wyrall 1926 Archive.org

https://archive.org/details/diehardsvol2/page/n9/mode/2up

The Green Howards in the Great War by Colonel H C Wylly 1926 https://archive.org/details/greenhowardsgtwar/page/n9/mode/2up Archive.org

 "Reminiscences of Russia 1917" by Major E E Charles page 378 The Army Quarterly Volume 12, 1926 April- July https://archive.org/details/armyquarterlyv12-1926/page/377/mode/2up  

Maureen

[MaureenE]

Another  online history where the Regiment went to North Russia

The Royal Berkshire Regiment (Princess Charlotte of Wales's). Volume 2, 1914-1918 by  F Loraine Petre  1925

https://archive.org/details/berkshireregtvol2/page/n7/mode/2up 

Maureen

[wrightdw]

Thanks Maureen.

[Bachibouzouk]

 

Hello. New recruit here. New to the forum and to this particular topic. Somehow found my way here down rabbit holes on the internet, books (Antony Beevor's Russian Revolution and Civil War 1917-1921, Ironside's Archangel 1918-1919 and two books that I have only just downloaded but couldn't help flicking through for photos and lists; Churchill's Secret War With Lenin and Churchill's Abandoned Prisoners) and another forum. Stoked that the author of Churchill's Secret War With Lenin is on here and willing to answer questions, of which I have many because I have no military knowledge whatsoever and very few research and technical skills.

My interest in this particular subject, the British Expeditionary Force to Northern Russia and the subsequent POWs, is due to my grandfather falling into both categories. I never spoke to my grandfather about his time in Russia, I was too young, and only questioned my father about what he knew of his own father's time there very superficially because I didn't know what to ask. I doubt my grandfather spoke much about it to his children anyway, but I don't know that for sure. A few bits and pieces have been handed down by word of mouth, some of them so outlandish that I all too readily dismissed them. The Lubyanka was mentioned, the cruelty at feeding times are two items I recall. On a more jocular note, there's an anecdote about skis. At some stage Pops was issued with what appeared to him to be two planks of wood. 'What the h**l are these?', he is supposed to have said. 'Skis', came the answer. 'I've never skied before'. 'You'll learn f***ing quickly enough when the Reds are shooting at you'.

What I do know is that my grandfather went to Russia and returned from being a prisoner of war there sometime after the end of the First World War. Family lore has it that he returned quite some time after the end of the war, by which I think after the Armistice of 1918 is meant. He returned in a near catatonic state, unable or unwilling to communicate much and unable to eat in company. The grandfather, I remember, was an ebullient character and a bon viveur, so he clearly recovered somewhat in later life.

Reading up a little around the subject I gather that as a result of the Copenhagen Conference of February 1920, Maxim Litvinov and James O'Grady arranged for an exchange of all remaining prisoners of war and that as a result all British POW's were back in the UK by the end of that year. That would concur with my grandfather returning 'sometime after the end of the war'. I've also read that the Cheka started using the Lubyanka as a prison sometime in 1920.

Much more than this I do not know. I have tried to get hold of my grandfather's war details on one of those paying sites but all I got back was the following:

Sapper in the Corps of the Royal Engineers and two medals (British War Medal and Victory Medal, which I believe are campaign medals and were awarded to almost everyone who fought in the war - Mutt and Jeff? ). No dates. No locations. No details.

I was under the impression that he was a Signaller. Perhaps Signallers were part of the Royal Engineers? And that he was a Pioneer, whatever that might be, rather than a Sapper. One and the same?

Interestingly while flicking through Damien Wright's book I think I may have spotted him. The Royal Engineer on the right assembling the 'M' gas bombs at Obozerskaya. It may be fanciful on my part but that facial expression is very familiar (my father and my nephew) and I recognise that chin and jawline on my father and indeed every morning when I shave.

Another photo on another forum (Army Rumours) also got me quite excited. It's labelled Russia PoWs and has been dated c. 1919-1921. I think I recognise my grandfather, second left, front row. I have a portrait photo of him from 1917 in his uniform and cap - two peas from the same pod? This photo is extraordinary, well to me at least, in many ways. There are also civilians, a woman and at least one young child in it. None of them look particularly distressed and one character is even clowning up a tree.

I have read that all returning POWs were interviewed (debriefed for political/ideological contamination?) by a committee and that there are three volumes of interviews held at Nuffield College in Oxford. How would one go about getting a look at those records, being neither a researcher nor a student at the university? Elsewhere I read that Royal Engineer records are held in Chatham.

Another little nugget that I would like to get some sort of clarification on is the expression: Koshee Blon, perhaps Koshee Bon. My grandfather and then my father used to use it to express something very good, always in a culinary sense (as in very tasty, delicious). I imagine it is some sort of Russo-French argot derived from Ochen (very, in Russian) and Bon (good, in French). Any thoughts?

My grandfather was Sidney Arthur Foster (20/02/1897-08/01/1971). Pioneer number 254480. Born in north London.

Any details or any pointers as to where to start looking welcome.

In the meantime I look forward to reading Churchill's Secret War With Lenin.

 

 

 

[wrightdw]

Hello Bachibouzouk and welcome to the forum!

You might like to have a close look at this image in the IWM using the zoom function: https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205316409

It shows British POW's at the entrance to St. Andrews Anglican Church, Moscow, most likely at Christmas 1919. Some British prisoners wear Russian civilian clothing. This image doesn't show all the British POW's at the time.

The officer front row with white shirt and tie holding a corner of the flag is Lieutenant Colonel Richard John Andrews, DSO, MC, Devon Regiment who was captured 20 July 1919 during a mutiny of White Russian troops at Onega in North Russia. An Australian officer Captain Allan Brown was murdered during during this mutiny.

Seated directly above the flag is Reverend Frank North, CBE, to his left South African Lieutenant Laurence Napier, DSO, RN, who was taken prisoner on 19 August 1919 when his motor boat CMB24 was sunk during the 'Kronstadt Raid' and to his left Mrs Margaret Caird North, CBE. The North's were awarded CBE's for their services to British POW's.

What was interesting about treatment of British POW's by the Bolsheviks (Reds, later 'Soviets') was that the officers were treated worse than the enlisted men which was the reverse for prisoners of the German army. Officers were considered criminals and imprisoned in criminal prisons while ordinary soldiers were treated as exploited victims of the upper class officers and interned rather than imprisoned.

Most of the officers were held at Skolniky and Butyrka criminal prisons and Andronikov Monastery.

I have compiled an incomplete list of 158 names of British POW's but Sidney Arthur Foster is not on it. That doesn't mean he wasn't a POW, only that I haven't encountered his name before.

The front of his Medal Index Card doesn't give any clues: https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D3536461

Sometimes the reverse of the MIC gives additional information (more often than not it is blank though) however National Archives only scanned the front.

Most of the POW's were released in a prisoner exchange in March 1920.

At the time before formation of the Royal Corps of Signals, the signal service was part of the Royal Engineers.

Can you post the link to the Army Rumour Service Russia POW image?

Most other ranks service records from the first world war either don't exist or don't have much information (more often the former).

I have a chapter on the Russia POW's in my book.

I have included a photograph of the Russia POW's which I include in my book and also a photograph of the same location today.

There is a Russian word 'Kharashiy' which means something is good which is I suspect the world that was used.

 

 

[Bachibouzouk]

 

Many thanks Damien for your rapid and lengthy response.

Too bad Sid does not appear on any of your lists but I'm reasonably confident we now have three photos of his time in Russia - two of which are in your book. I already thought I had spotted him in the group photo at St Andrew's Anglican Church but because my version of your book is on my Kindle zooming in and enlarging the photo only blurred the image. The photo in your post above is much clearer and I think that is Sid in the top right-hand corner, wearing his cap and with a hand on his shoulder. I think I can even see the dimple on his chin, which is quite clear in his 1917 portrait.

The photo posted on Army Rumours is under the 'British soldiers in the Russian Revolution' thread and Post number 52 by BicycleBrigade. I will try to link it to this post, without too much hope of success! I think that my grandfather is second left, bottom row, sitting/squatting in the snow. Here again the dimple is evident, and possibly the trim moustache which he was to favour for the rest of his life.

Although the two group photos are set in different locations they feature many (possibly all?) of the same people. Fairly easy to match up most of those sitting on chairs/benches but it would be a lengthy job to match up the others. I've tried to do a head count but it's not as easy as it might seem (have I already counted that one?) - approx. 65 in both photos.

Is the black dog in the St Andrew's Anglican Church photo the three-legged dog that I have read about somewhere?

I'm also puzzled by the flag. Is it just washed out on the photos? Was it cobbled together locally with whatever was available? Or is it a version of the Union Flag used by one of the services?

Presumably the North's stayed on in Moscow after the Revolution and during the Civil War?*

Maybe the answers to these questions are in your book!

Thanks for clearing up the Royal Engineers/Signallers point.

Unfortunately we do not have Sid's two First World War medals (although we do have his OBE from 1962). He was widowed in the 50s, remarried and a lot of his stuff just seemed to vanish.

Do you think there might be something in those returning POW archives held at Nuffield College in Oxford and in the Royal Engineers archives in Chatham? And how would I go about accessing them?

* Sid stayed on in Paris, where he was working, at the outset of the Second World War and remained interned in France as an enemy alien throughout the duration of hostilities. I wonder whether he had the North's in mind? I've also wondered how many Britons, there must have been hundred of thousands of other nationalities in eastern Europe, were interned by both the Bolsheviks in the First War and the Nazis in the Second. As Sid used to joke - 'I just couldn't run fast enough'.

 

Edited 18 January by Bachibouzouk
Precision

[seaJane]

On 17/01/2024 at 15:59, Bachibouzouk said:

three volumes of interviews held at Nuffield College in Oxford. How would one go about getting a look at those records, being neither a researcher nor a student at the university?

In my experience the college's archivist or librarian is always pleased to help people with a genuine interest in and enquiry about their material. There are details on how to apply for access to Nuffield's archives here: https://www.nuffield.ox.ac.uk/the-college/library/special-collections-and-archives/archive/

Good luck!

seaJane 

[Bachibouzouk]

 

Many thanks seaJane

Clicked on the link which took me very quickly to:

Emmott, Lord (1858-1926) 21 boxes.

'Emmott 8' (presumably Box 8?) 'which contains papers relating to the Foreign Office Committee to collect information on Russia'.

I'll be following that lead up.

 

[Bachibouzouk]

 

Here are some photos of Sidney Arthur Foster from the family photo album.

Photo 1: Does the badge on his cap confirm him as a Royal Engineer?

If he was a Sapper/Private why does he have a swagger stick? Just a contrivance at the photographers?

Photo 2: Sid is bottom right. Could the officer in the middle be Lieutenant Colonel Richard John Andrews? Hazarding a guess from comparing faces in the St Andrews Anglican Church group photo above.

Photo 3: Northern Russia kit?