Seeking identification

[Moonraker]

As I indicated in my PM, Barlow, I don't have too much to offer specifically about the 10th, and you can get some idea of the camp in late 1914 by Googling "Codford 1914" and "10th Cheshire Codford", the latter taking you to a brief reference from my own book: "[On arrival] Eight hundred men of the 10th Cheshire Regiment had no change of clothing and were given a blanket apiece, their provisional NCOs being chosen by what they had done in civilian life. Googling "great war forum codford" will take you to previous threads about the camp, though not many will relate to the months of 1914 when the 10th was there.

 

Romy Wyeth's Warriors for the Working Day describes Codford in both world wars and devotes more than two pages to the inquest into the death of the 10th's Lance Corporal William Cooper shortly after arriving there. The verdict was that death was due to asphyxia suffocation due to an epileptic fit.

 

Postcards of the 10th at Codford are scarce, though one shows "mail for 10th Cheshire Regiment leaving Codford St Mary", presumably for delivery to the hutments. Sacks of mail are piled on a horse-drawn cart, with several soldiers and young postmen in attendance. (I don't have a copy; when it was offered on eBay, it went for a very high price.)

 

The above should give you some background to the camp. Please let us know if it suffices for your needs.

 

Moonraker

[Barlow]

Thank you Moonraker - very helpful. I shall get googling.

[abbrover]

I have been researching the 13th (Wirral) Bn Cheshire Regiment for over 30 years, and the images reproduced above are definitely of men from this battalion. Todger Jones VC is definitely NOT on any of the photographs. He was serving with 1st Bn Cheshire Regiment, and never served with the 13th Bn. There is a resemblance to Todger, but it definitely is not him.

If anybody has photographs of the 13th (Wirral) Bn Cheshire Regiment, I would be very interested in hearing from you.

 

Pete Threlfall

[Moonraker]

A somewhat contrived late addition to this thread: a nondescript postcard postmarked October 21, 1914 and showing bell tents very close to Codford St Mary church has just sold on eBay for £56 , with one other bidder going up to £55, another to £51. The vendor must have been delighted - and surprised. A dealer might have priced the card at £8 to 10.  (I was going to "snipe" - bid at the very last moment - but when I saw how high the bidding was I didn't bother.)

As indicated in previous posts and other threads, the first arrivals at Codford were recruits with no weapons, uniforms, or accommodation other than tents (and some did not have those at first.) The weather soon deteriorated, making the winter 1914 months of training (such as it was) very unpleasant.

[FROGSMILE]

On 10/11/2022 at 18:27, Moonraker said:

A somewhat contrived late addition to this thread: a nondescript postcard postmarked October 21, 1914 and showing bell tents very close to Codford St Mary church has just sold on eBay for £56 , with one other bidder going up to £55, another to £51. The vendor must have been delighted - and surprised. A dealer might have priced the card at £8 to 10.  (I was going to "snipe" - bid at the very last moment - but when I saw how high the bidding was I didn't bother.)

As indicated in previous posts and other threads, the first arrivals at Codford were recruits with no weapons, uniforms, or accommodation other than tents (and some did not have those at first.) The weather soon deteriorated, making the winter 1914 months of training (such as it was) very unpleasant.

Very evocative for me Moonraker, as I lived in Codford for 2-years and enjoyed exploring the sites of as many of the old camps as I could track down.  It was an emotive place to live with plenty of traces of WW1 activity still preserved, including some huts (that went through WW2 as well) and miles of fencing with upright posts formed from the sleepers of the old camp railway. 

Edited 7 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Moonraker]

I've just acquired a postcard with an October 7, 1914 postcard sent by someone who  surely was in a Cheshire battalion there. It shows the ford at Codford, but it's the message that interested me:

From J Shepherd 13386  B Coy  No 6 Camp  Codford  Wiltshire   "Dear Kid Sorry I did not write but there is such a lot to think about  we have been drilled off our feet this last fortnight. We have not got our rig-out yet; not all of us. I am waiting for a bit  It is red tunic & Blue pants; it looks alright: but they are old ones. They reckon we are coming home in a fortnight but I can hardly believe it. We have had two airoplanes flying over this morning one came down near to us to tell that Kitchener was coming"

Kitchener was due to visit the Codford locality on October 8, first going to the Lark Hill area, where his visit was suddenly curtailed when he was called back to London for an urgent meeting.

Judging from the address, Shepherd would have been a member of the 10th, 11th or 13th Cheshire Regiment. (Hint to any kind soul who might say which one, please.)

[FROGSMILE]

11 minutes ago, Moonraker said:

I've just acquired a postcard with an October 7, 1914 postcard sent by someone who  surely was in a Cheshire battalion there. It shows the ford at Codford, but it's the message that interested me:

From J Shepherd 13386  B Coy  No 6 Camp  Codford  Wiltshire   "Dear Kid Sorry I did not write but there is such a lot to think about  we have been drilled off our feet this last fortnight. We have not got our rig-out yet; not all of us. I am waiting for a bit  It is red tunic & Blue pants; it looks alright: but they are old ones. They reckon we are coming home in a fortnight but I can hardly believe it. We have had two airoplanes flying over this morning one came down near to us to tell that Kitchener was coming"

Kitchener was due to visit the Codford locality on October 8, first going to the Lark Hill area, where his visit was suddenly curtailed when he was called back to London for an urgent meeting.

Judging from the address, Shepherd would have been a member of the 10th, 11th or 13th Cheshire Regiment. (Hint to any kind soul who might say which one, please.)

He could be 10th or 11th.  Both battalions were in 75th Brigade, 25th Div and arrived in Codford St Mary some time soon after they were formed at Chester on 10th and 17th of September 1914, respectively**.  They remained at Codford until moving to Winter quarters in Winchester in the November of that same year.

**no precise date is given in Brig James’s tome, but there might well be something if any battalion histories were published postwar.

Edited 7 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Moonraker]

I have as being at Codford:

10th Cheshire Regiment: end August–early winter 1914
11th Cheshire Regiment: autumn 1914
13th Cheshire Regiment: October 5, 1914-January 25, 1915

I worked through James' tome many years ago, abstracting the Wiltshire content and tweaking it every since, but you've provided more precise dates for the 10th and 11th's move to Winchester. Thanks. The Wartime Memories Project has the 13th as spending the winter in Bournemouth, having moved from  "the Salisbury area"; not sure where I got my date from.

 

[FROGSMILE]

16 minutes ago, Moonraker said:

I have as being at Codford:

10th Cheshire Regiment: end August–early winter 1914
11th Cheshire Regiment: autumn 1914
13th Cheshire Regiment: October 5, 1914-January 25, 1915

I worked through James' tome many years ago, abstracting the Wiltshire content and tweaking it every since, but you've provided more precise dates for the 10th and 11th's move to Winchester. Thanks. The Wartime Memories Project has the 13th as spending the winter in Bournemouth, having moved from  "the Salisbury area"; not sure where I got my date from.

 

Most of that seems fine, but I don’t see how the 10th could have been in Codford in August 1914 given that they were not formed until 10th September, unless Brigadier James’s information was in error.  Incidentally Brig James’s data has been extrapolated into the Long Long Trail and can be seen there.

Edited 7 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[Moonraker]

Could have been  probably a mis-tweak of James' listing by me, possibly through coming across an erroneous dating by someone else.

[FROGSMILE]

18 minutes ago, Moonraker said:

Could have been  probably a mis-tweak of James' listing by me, possibly through coming across an erroneous dating by someone else.

On balance the 10th seems the most likely on face value, but given that the writer was still waiting for a scarlet frock and blue trousers around the time that Kitchener was visiting, then it could be the 11th as the more recently raised unit.

Edited 7 August , 2023 by FROGSMILE

[BillyH]

7 hours ago, Moonraker said:

Judging from the address, Shepherd would have been a member of the 10th, 11th or 13th Cheshire Regiment. (Hint to any kind soul who might say which one, please.)

99% certainly NOT 13th Bn.

BillyH.

Edited 7 August , 2023 by BillyH

[abbrover]

Hello all. I have been researching the 13th (Wirral) Bn Cheshire Regiment for about 30 years on and off, and I can categorically state that J. Sheppard did not serve with this battalion. If he had his number would have had a "W" prefix and his number would have been between 1 - 1245 (although before going overseas there were a number of men who joined the battalion just before going to France on 25th September 1915.

I would guess that his number is more in line with the 10th Bn. Cheshire Regiment.

Kindest regards

Pete Threlfall

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, abbrover said:

Hello all. I have been researching the 13th (Wirral) Bn Cheshire Regiment for about 30 years on and off, and I can categorically state that J. Sheppard did not serve with this battalion. If he had his number would have had a "W" prefix and his number would have been between 1 - 1245 (although before going overseas there were a number of men who joined the battalion just before going to France on 25th September 1915.

I would guess that his number is more in line with the 10th Bn. Cheshire Regiment.

Kindest regards

Pete Threlfall

It’s useful to have that confirmation Pete.  Thank you for posting.

[abbrover]

22 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

It’s useful to have that confirmation Pete.  Thank you for posting.

No problem at all Frogsmile.

Pete