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Remembered Today:

Seeking identification


GRANVILLE

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On behalf of someone else, this photo is thought to have been taken in the 1920s. Can anyone offer any suggestions as to which regiment or company this might be?


David

SEEKING ID.jpg

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The soldier back row on the left looks to be the only one sporting a cap badge but I don't know enough to hazard a guess. If Codf'd stands for Codford (military camp) I wonder why the photographer came from New Ferry (Wirral) some 200 or so miles away, could he have been following a unit local to Merseyside?

 

Simon

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Simon: that is indeed the case. Davies published a number of postcards of the Cheshire Regiment when several of its battalions were at Codford in 1914-15:

 

10th Battalion: end August–early winter 1914; 11th: autumn 1914; 13th: autumn 1914

 

(I would welcome fine-turning of these dates.)

 

They were issued with a hotchpotch of uniforms. I have five other cards published by Davies showing Cheshire units at Codford. The captions for two specify the 13th Battalion. The 11th was not happy:

 

"The hours were too long, the loads too heavy, and discontent spread. Conditions became worse with the approach of winter. Blankets were scarce, and the men were sleeping in mud ... one night serious trouble was narrowly averted. Lieut. Hall issued extra beer and persuaded the men to appoint spokesmen. Early next morning Colonel Dyas wired to Lord Kitchener, and the Battalion was moved by road to billets near Bournemouth."

(Arthur Crookenden, The History of the Cheshire Regiment in the Great War, Naval & Military Press 2004, p 345.)

 

I understand that the 13th was unofficially known as the "Wirral Battalion" and with New Ferry being on the Wirral Peninsula it is likely that David's card shows the 13th.

 

I've the idea that a civic party visited one or more of the Cheshire battalions at Codford and perhaps Davies accompanied it?

 

Perhaps experts on the regiment may be able to provide further information? And local Wirral newspapers would have reported on the visit.

 

Moonraker

 

Edited by Moonraker
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Big help thanks. I've found a similar image on-line - possibly one of those referred to by Moonraker. This is indicted as being Cheshire Regiment soldiers at the Codford Camp.

 

David

WW1-soldier-group-Cheshire-Regiment-Kitcheners-Army.jpg

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Warriors for the Working Day - Codford during Two World Wars by Romy Wyeth re-prints part of an article describing a visit by Sir William H Lever to "the Wirral Battalion Men at Codford" on December 21, 1914. He said that the men "are all very fit and well ... and yet they have not had ideal conditions. I don't think I ever saw so much mud in my life ... It is a very sticky sort of mud ... they are perfectly happy".

 

It must have been very shortly after this visit that the 13th left the camp for billets at Bournemouth.

 

Moonraker

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Just an anoraky sort of observation - they are armed with Magazine Lee-Enfields (MLE) not Charger-Loading Lee-Enfields (note absence of charger bridge), so obsolete rifles by this point. The chap on the left(as we look) might even have an older Lee-Metford because I think I can see the oval indentation in the stock to allow easier grabbing of the magazine cutoff and the magazine appears to be the early, deeper profile,  8 round, single-stack variant (compare the two magazines of the chaps at either end)

Adds weight to it being an early photo.

Chris

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Your expert observations confirm the hotchpotch nature of the uniforms and equipment issued to many Kitchener battalions in late 1914. The main problem at Codford - and elsewhere -  was the lack of  hutted accommodation, which was constructed around the soldiers as they lived in tents.

 

Moonraker

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Much appreciated information all round. 

 

David

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 they are man of the Wirral Battalion (13th Cheshire's) as they did wear a white band in thier headdress.  

 

The second to last picture, the guy with the black jumper on the extreme left as you look at is Thomas Alfred Jones VC, DCM

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4 hours ago, thetrenchrat22 said:

 they are man of the Wirral Battalion (13th Cheshire's) as they did wear a white band in thier headdress.  

The second to last picture, the guy with the black jumper on the extreme left as you look at is Thomas Alfred Jones VC, DCM

 

I agree that they are 13th Bn. but I wouldn't have thought that it is Todger Jones in the photo, or do you know otherwise?

 

BillyH.

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The same photo and caption in the book as T A Jones VC  'l laughed like blazes' by Dave Thompson 

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That's interesting. I wonder who he was training with at Codford, surely it wouldn't have been the 13th Battalion?

 

BillyH.

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 His service papers have survived and it seems that enlisted on the 31st August 1914 and was posted to the 1st Battalion on the 16th January 1915

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  • 2 years later...
On 13/06/2017 at 09:19, Moonraker said:

Simon: that is indeed the case. Davies published a number of postcards of the Cheshire Regiment when several of its battalions were at Codford in 1914-15:

 

10th Battalion: end August–early winter 1914; 11th: autumn 1914; 13th: autumn 1914

 

(I would welcome fine-turning of these dates.)

 

They were issued with a hotchpotch of uniforms. I have five other cards published by Davies showing Cheshire units at Codford. The captions for two specify the 13th Battalion. The 11th was not happy:

 

"The hours were too long, the loads too heavy, and discontent spread. Conditions became worse with the approach of winter. Blankets were scarce, and the men were sleeping in mud ... one night serious trouble was narrowly averted. Lieut. Hall issued extra beer and persuaded the men to appoint spokesmen. Early next morning Colonel Dyas wired to Lord Kitchener, and the Battalion was moved by road to billets near Bournemouth."

(Arthur Crookenden, The History of the Cheshire Regiment in the Great War, Naval & Military Press 2004, p 345.)

 

I understand that the 13th was unofficially known as the "Wirral Battalion" and with New Ferry being on the Wirral Peninsula it is likely that David's card shows the 13th.

 

I've the idea that a civic party visited one or more of the Cheshire battalions at Codford and perhaps Davies accompanied it?

 

Perhaps experts on the regiment may be able to provide further information? And local Wirral newspapers would have reported on the visit.

 

Moonraker

 

Hi Moonraker - my gt grandfather and and gt gt uncle were both in Ches Rgt 10 bn. They joined on 1st sept 1914. I’m trying to pull together their history - I have regt diaries and some other evidence - I would love to get a decent scan of the 10th bn postcards - are you able to send me some? Also keen to find out more, if you have more info.

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1 hour ago, Barlow said:

. . . . . my gt grandfather and and gt gt uncle were both in Ches Rgt 10 bn. 

 

Are you able to tell us what their names were?

 

BillyH.

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 hours ago, BillyH said:

I'll take that as a 'No' then.

 

BillyH.


If you take a look at Barlow’s profile, Billy, you’ll see that he hasn’t returned to the forum since the day that he posted that request.  Maybe if you send a PM?

 

Regards,

FS

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Yes, I had actually noticed that FS   -   but he did say that he was "keen to find out more, if you have more info".

My comment was born out of frustration, but it's not the first time that someone didn't return to the Forum?

 

BillyH.

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I confess to not having spotted Barlow's request to me in Post 16, not that I have any postcards of the 10th, and I have very little info. 

 

I don't have the time to look at every thread, and this one's  heading of "Seeking identification" would not usually catch my eye - though it obviously did three years ago! No aspersion on Granville, as when he started the thread he couldn't have known what words to use that would attract my attention (Wiltshire, Codford, Salisbury Plain ..) 

 

I'll PM Barlow to offer just a couple of morsels of info.

 

Moonraker

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1 hour ago, Moonraker said:

I confess to not having spotted Barlow's request to me in Post 16, not that I have any postcards of the 10th, and I have very little info. 

 

I don't have the time to look at every thread, and this one's  heading of "Seeking identification" would not usually catch my eye - though it obviously did three years ago! No aspersion on Granville, as when he started the thread he couldn't have known what words to use that would attract my attention (Wiltshire, Codford, Salisbury Plain ..) 

 

I'll PM Barlow to offer just a couple of morsels of info.

 

Moonraker

 
That would be typically kind of you. 

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Hi all,

 

Apologies, I have to confess I was expecting a mail to alert if anyone responded on the forum. Thank you for PM ing me Moonraker.
 

They were 13588 Albert Barlow (my Gt Grandfather) and 14927 Wilson Barlow (His Brother). They were both Winsford lads that joined Ches Rgt at Chester Castle in 1st Sept 1914. Wilson was KIA on 12th July 1916. Albert was wounded 3 times - the first as a result of a massive underground mine explosion on 24th May 1916. 
Upon the 3rd occasion he was transferred to the Labour Corps where he saw out the rest of the war. i have their pension and medal records, and the Ches Rgt museum researchers had some other bits and bobs. 
 

I’ve had their medals framed up - see attachments.

 

As I said, I’m keen to learn as much as possible to document their lives for my family. Any pics or other evidence would be even better. My 95 year old great uncle (Albert’s son) would be especially interested. 
 

Thanks

35F8DD8A-0C3E-4429-A589-28420D30B60D.jpeg

941BF1A4-2F38-4A01-AAFA-D99B046CF62B.jpeg

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Thanks for getting back Barlow. Unfortunately I have to pass on this now. I thought that they may have been Wirral lads - then I might have been able to help!

 

BillyH.

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