Grid Posted 3 June , 2017 Share Posted 3 June , 2017 Did the British air service (RFC, RNAS, RAF) at any point begin to discourage adding 'out of control' claims to individual pilot's scores? I get the feeling that towards the latter part of the war squadron commander's were less keen to accept Combat Reports for 'out of control' claims. 1. Is this right? 2. Was this because of instructions from higher up? 3. On what date and by whom was this order given? 4. How strictly was this enforced? Many thanks Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 3 June , 2017 Share Posted 3 June , 2017 What makes you say they were not accepted? They ceased to be recorded in the RAF Communiques from late May 1918 onwards, but combat reports etc still showed them and they were still included in a pilot's 'score'. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 4 June , 2017 Share Posted 4 June , 2017 Mr TG Are you absolutely sure about that. I simply ask because was totally unaware of that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 4 June , 2017 Share Posted 4 June , 2017 Yes, absolutely sure. Check in the Brigade Summaries and you'll see that the out of control claims are still listed - they just don't appear in the Communiques. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 5 June , 2017 Share Posted 5 June , 2017 Thanks, I made myself insuficiently clear. I am not surprised they were included in combat reports, more that they were included in pilots' scores, accepting of course the frequent inaccuracy of the final figures apportioned to many flyers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topgun1918 Posted 5 June , 2017 Share Posted 5 June , 2017 Hello David Out of Control claims were considered 'decisive' and were included in the compilation of a pilot's list of claims up to end of the war. Earlier terms such as 'forced to land', 'driven down', 'driven off, etc, which had been used to tot up a pilot's score in the early stages of the war were, by and large, discontinued by early 1917, leaving 'destroyed' (in all of its guises - captured, crashed, in flames, broke up etc) and 'out of control'; naturally, enemy kite balloons were included, provided that flames were seen (although some claims seem to have been allowed when the balloon was reported as 'smoking'). It is conceded that many out of control claims were moral victories, but as more information has come to light, certainly in the 40-plus years I've been researching claims and losses, it is increasingly evident that many more such claims actually resulted in some sort of casualty than was originally thought to be the case, even if only the enemy pilot's engine being disabled and the pilot having to force land, often away from his airfield. The 'inaccuracy' results from efforts by writers in the years immediately after the war to demonstrate that the British flying services had given as good as they had got and figures were produced usually on the basis of medal citations and information in obituaries. Only when the Public Records Office released information in the late 1960s/early 1970s was it possible to examine combat reports etc and make a more accurate assessment of claims; that is still going on today. I have started a thread on 'another forum' listing the data I have for claims and losses on a daily basis. Contributions from other members of that forum have shown that many out of control claims did actually result in a German casualty. Graeme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fetubi Posted 5 June , 2017 Share Posted 5 June , 2017 A typically interesting post! Thanks Graeme. Trevor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 5 June , 2017 Share Posted 5 June , 2017 Now that makes complete sense. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grid Posted 5 June , 2017 Author Share Posted 5 June , 2017 Graeme, Thanks so much for the fulsome clarification, very helpful. Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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