Private George Leonard Strotton (POW?)

[David Earley]

According to CWGC, Private George Leonard Strotton 44115, 9th Battalion Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry, was killed on 12 November 1918 and is commemorated on the Vis-en_Artois memorial in France (http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1749258/STROTTON, GEORGE LEONARD).

 

On this basis, some time ago, I wrote a biography of him (http://ww1memorials.midhurstu3a.org.uk/private-george-leonard-strotton/). I have now found him on the Soldiers Effects records on Ancestry (transcribed as Stratton) which says that he died in Germany on 11 February 1919).

 

The  Service Medal and Award Rolls show that he died as a Prisoner of War on 12 November 1918. If he was a PoW, it sheds a different light and I will need to amend the biography.

 

Can someone check if he is listed as a PoW? If so, is there any indication of where & when he was taken prisoner? And when he actually died?

 

Thanks

 

David

 

Edited 20 May , 2017 by David Earley
add another query

[ss002d6252]

8 minutes ago, David Earley said:

According to CWGC, Private George Leonard Strotton 44115, 9th Battalion Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry, was killed on 12 November 1918 and is commemorated on the Vis-en_Artois memorial in France (http://www.cwgc.org/find-war-dead/casualty/1749258/STROTTON, GEORGE LEONARD).

 

On this basis, some time ago, I wrote a biography of him (http://ww1memorials.midhurstu3a.org.uk/private-george-leonard-strotton/). I have now found him on the Soldiers Effects records on Ancestry (transcribed as Stratton) which says that he died in Germany on 11 February 1919).

 

The  Service Medal and Award Rolls show that he died as a Prisoner of War on 12 November 1918. If this is correct, it sheds a different light and I will need to amned the biography.

 

Can someone check if he is listed as a PoW? If so, is there any indication of where & when he was taken prisoner?

 

Thanks

 

David

 

The war gratuity was paid for 29 months qualifying service at the time of his death.
 

From 11 Feb 1919 this gratuity would indicate enlistment between 12 Sep 1916 and 11 Oct 1916.
 

For the war gratuity to be wrong the regimental paymaster would have had to have had the wrong information (not impossible to have happened)

Craig

[ss002d6252]

One thing that does jump out is that the SDGW transcript on FMP lists him as KIA (on 12 Nov 18)

Craig

[jonbem]

But you can't deny the other detail, P of W

 

[charlie962]

I had a look at the ICRC prisoners site but didn't manage to find him, despite trying various spellings (but that doesn't mean he is not there!). Charlie

[David Earley]

 

This is the entry on the Register of Effects.

 

David

[David Earley]

26 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

I had a look at the ICRC prisoners site but didn't manage to find him, despite trying various spellings (but that doesn't mean he is not there!). Charlie

Is there any way to search these records using the service number or regiment rather than the name of the soldier

[charlie962]

Search by number? Sadly, not that I am aware of.  There are often misfiles, let alone mistranscriptions so one has to spread the net wide. I have previously suggested to the likes of FMP that they could do a valuable indexing/search project with these records that would gain them a competitive advantage but no reaction, of course.

 

Charlie

Edited 20 May , 2017 by charlie962

[keithmroberts]

The  British National Armed Forces death records on FMP have the death registered as being in 1918.

 

Roll on the pensions Records. The WFA have so far as I know made no announcements about progress with these. £25 a time is an expensive way to  seek more information and there is no certainty that they will add anything.

 

If he was taken prisoner very  late in the war it is quite understandable that there might have been issues with German  and Red Cross records.

 

My only other thought would be the local papers but I suspect that these have been examined already.

[Chris_Baker]

Doesn't help with his death, but men of the KOYLI numbered around him had been transferred into the regiment from the Royal Field Artillery.

Edited 20 May , 2017 by Chris_Baker

[ss002d6252]

I couldn't see his name in the roll of men listed in the war diary when the battalion was reduced to a cadre in June 18 so it looks like he wasn't physically with the battalion by then.

Craig

[David Earley]

To sum up, what we now have is:

1.      CWGC record his death on 12 November 1918 and commemoration in the Vis-en-Artois memorial in France.

2.      SDGW have him as Killed in Action on 12 November 1918.

3.      It has always struck me as odd that he should be killed the day after the Armistice but have no known grave.

4.      The Service Medal and Award Rolls show that he died as a Prisoner of War on 12 November 1918.

5.      The Soldiers Effects records show that he died in Germany on 11 February 1919.

6.      He cannot be traced on the ICRC records.

7.      He probably enlisted in September/October 1916.

8.      He may have initially been with the Royal Field Artillery before transferring to the KOYLI.

9.      He appears to have physically left the battalion by June 1918.

 

Is it just coincidence that his first date of death was the day after the Armistice and that the second date of death is exactly three months after the armistice? Was that an administrative convenience?

The War Diary of the 9^th KOYLI is unusually silent about casualties. Thus on 24 August 1918, for example, it states that “the casualties were heavy” with no further detail. The CWGC records 19 casualties from the 9^th Battalion (including one officer), but this is not recorded in the war diary.

 

All in all, rather unsatisfactory and very confusing.

 

David

[ss002d6252]

Quote

Is it just coincidence that his first date of death was the day after the Armistice and that the second date of death is exactly three months after the armistice? Was that an administrative convenience?

'Administrative dates' are only used where death was presumed and they know it occurred within a specific range (most commonly seen during March 1918 when there was chaos during the German assault)

Craig

[charlie962]

Keith in post 9 mentioned the

On 20/05/2017 at 17:18, keithmroberts said:

British National Armed Forces death records on FMP

 

I see in that index there are two references for this man

which may give more info?

 

Charlie (with thanks and acknowledgements and alll praises and blessings to FMP)

 

 

[Ellis1918]

"From Pontefract to Picardy"  9th KOYLI in WW1 by Derek Clayton shows him on roll of honour as died 12 Nov 1918 but with service number 44155 not 44115.  Three other casualties on that date L Cpl Curtis 64842 dow buried Caudry British cemetery France , Pvte Heseltine 37076 buried Niederzwehren cemetery Germany and Pvte Wood 41288 dow Germany buried Hautrage Military cemetery Belgium.

The final entry on the roll of honour is Sep 1920.

The 9th KOYLI final action in WW1 was the liberation of Limont-Fontaine on 7 Nov 1918 when 16 lives were lost although men died of wounds in the few days after.

[AndrewSid]

LCpl Heseltine was a relative of mine and I have researched him as deeply as I can.  He died a POW as stated above on the 12 of November 1918.  The 9th Bn KOYLI had a very tough war and the casualties reflect that.  Of note is that the 9th Bn was pretty much overrun on the 27th of May 1918 during the Germans Aisne offensive.  After the battle the Bn consisted of the band and a few dozen men.  The majority were captured.  I suspect this is the action Pte Stratton was captured. 

 

They had been in some very fierce fighting in the weeks prior to the action on the 27th that saw the Bn pretty much wiped from the Orbat.  However,  these were mostly successful containment, counterattack or withdrawal actions where being taken prisoner was unlikely. In one of these actions LCpl Heseltine won the MM.

 

Appreciate this is late but the war diaries of the 9th are available online and the actions in April and May 1918 may give you some answers. I also found the Red Cross files very useful as they had 2 or 3 pages on LCpl Heseltine.

Edited 11 May , 2021 by AndrewSid
Spelling

[sadbrewer]

On 22/05/2017 at 08:23, David Earley said:

To sum up, what we now have is:

1.      CWGC record his death on 12 November 1918 and commemoration in the Vis-en-Artois memorial in France.

2.      SDGW have him as Killed in Action on 12 November 1918.

3.      It has always struck me as odd that he should be killed the day after the Armistice but have no known grave.

4.      The Service Medal and Award Rolls show that he died as a Prisoner of War on 12 November 1918.

5.      The Soldiers Effects records show that he died in Germany on 11 February 1919.

6.      He cannot be traced on the ICRC records.

7.      He probably enlisted in September/October 1916.

8.      He may have initially been with the Royal Field Artillery before transferring to the KOYLI.

9.      He appears to have physically left the battalion by June 1918.

 

Is it just coincidence that his first date of death was the day after the Armistice and that the second date of death is exactly three months after the armistice? Was that an administrative convenience?

The War Diary of the 9^th KOYLI is unusually silent about casualties. Thus on 24 August 1918, for example, it states that “the casualties were heavy” with no further detail. The CWGC records 19 casualties from the 9^th Battalion (including one officer), but this is not recorded in the war diary.

 

All in all, rather unsatisfactory and very confusing.

 

David

 

Hope you pick this up David, he was listed in the casualty list published 18th July 1918 as missing.

[sadbrewer]

22 hours ago, AndrewSid said:

LCpl Heseltine was a relative of mine and I have researched him as deeply as I can.  He died a POW as stated above on the 12 of November 1918.  The 9th Bn KOYLI had a very tough war and the casualties reflect that.  Of note is that the 9th Bn was pretty much overrun on the 27th of May 1918 during the Germans Aisne offensive.  After the battle the Bn consisted of the band and a few dozen men.  The majority were captured.  I suspect this is the action Pte Stratton was captured. 

 

They had been in some very fierce fighting in the weeks prior to the action on the 27th that saw the Bn pretty much wiped from the Orbat.  However,  these were mostly successful containment, counterattack or withdrawal actions where being taken prisoner was unlikely. In one of these actions LCpl Heseltine won the MM.

 

Appreciate this is late but the war diaries of the 9th are available online and the actions in April and May 1918 may give you some answers. I also found the Red Cross files very useful as they had 2 or 3 pages on LCpl Heseltine.

 

Lance Cpl Heseltine was also posted missing in the same casualty list as Strotton, 18th July 1918.

[Matlock1418]

On 20/05/2017 at 16:18, keithmroberts said:

Roll on the pensions Records.

Now they are available from WFA/Fold3 - Nothing new there I am afraid.

STROTTON, George Leonard 44115 KOYLI

"Between 12.11.18 & 11.2.19  Missing, death presumed"

:-) M