casperdog Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 (edited) Can anyone help me trace a Captain Arthur Angers? He was a temporary Captain (was this a wartime or field promotion?). He was in the 16th South Lancashire regiment and I believe he was killed in 1917 on the Western front. His family was so upset that when they received his personal possessions they sanpped the last inch or two off the sword as a protest and the sword was in Mrs. Angers box room for many years. I have his sword, which is engraved with his name and the regiment. I was 9 years old in 1966 and I was given it by his widow. I lived as a child in Liverpool and I still have the sword in my possession. Someone may have access to the WW1 service records? If anyone does know can they kindly pass on details to me please? Dave Edited 16 May , 2017 by casperdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 (edited) 1917 Army List for 16th (Transport Workers) Battalion, South Lancs Regt. He is also included on the 1918 Army List with same details They worked on Liverpool Docks so I suspect he didn't serve overseas. He is not listed among the Battalion casualties Edited 16 May , 2017 by Stephen Nulty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 The Liverpool Daily Post of 15/10/1917 reports him as giving a speech at the VC presentation of Private Ratcliffe , so he was quite a way from the Western Front! http://www.lancashireinfantrymuseum.org.uk/private-william-ratcliffe-vc-mm-the-dockers-vc/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casperdog Posted 16 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2017 Stephen, many thanks ! I was told by the family that 'he died in the war' ? Strange that one. I did go on to 'war records' and they give you a free taster (before they charge you) and he was listed as ''Temporary Captain''. I'd like to get to the bottom of this, so if you or anyone knows anything, do let me know. Interesting. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casperdog Posted 16 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2017 (edited) I've attached the engraving on the blade of the sword, it may be rather illegible. Plus one of the whole sword. I must admit this is rather strange, as we were told by the familt that he was 'killed in the war''. Odd. The engraving reads: ''Captain A.Angers 16th South Lancs'' Anyway, always good to know. Strange he wasn't listed in the casualties either. A mystery this one? Did some troops only serve in the U.K. ? Dave Edited 16 May , 2017 by casperdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 He was gazetted as a temp. Lt. on 14 April 1917, but the London Gazette gives his name as Arthur Angers https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30044/supplement/4172 Promoted to temp Capt. 12 June 1917 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30175/supplement/6927 and relinquished his commission on account of ill-health 4 January 1920 https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31718/supplement/174 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casperdog Posted 16 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2017 (edited) Harry, yes, his name may well have been Arthur. I wonder if his ''ill health'' was due to an aspect of war service and he died prematurely? Only speculation but this may link in to the family being quite against the war. They snapped off the end of the sword (I reground the blade with a point myself). Clearly he survived the war and resigned his Commission in 1920. Maybe it will remain a mystery? Thank you very much for your research, it is interesting and adds some detail I was completely unaware of. I wonder if he was over on the western front? Maybe I'll never know. ''Transport Workers Battalions'' - anyone know what this was all about? it is given as a ''Labour Battalion''? Best wishes, Dave Edited 16 May , 2017 by casperdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 Captain Arthur ANGERS The Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire Regiment). War Office: Officers' Services, First World War, Long Number Papers (numerical). Officers Services (including Civilian Dependants and Military Staff Appointments): Long Service Papers. Captain Arthur ANGERS The Prince of Wales's Volunteers (South Lancashire Regiment). Held by: The National Archives - War Office, Armed Forces, Judge Advocate General, and related bodies Date: 1914 - 1922 Reference: WO 339/100649 Subjects: Armed Forces (General Administration) | Army | Conflict | Operations, battles and campaigns Arthur sems to have a service record at Kew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casperdog Posted 16 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2017 (edited) stiletto_33853 Many thanks for this. Very interesting. Will the Kew records give more details do you think? Dave Edited 16 May , 2017 by casperdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 (edited) Hi Dave, They should give details of promotions, when gazetted, personal details, medical boards if he had any etc., details of his death i.e. Killed in Action, Died of Wounds, died of illness. One or two I have come across have a picture of them, birth certificates, educational certification. Some files are quite full of information whereas others are particularly sparse you just do not know until you view them I am afraid. One I photographed last week had 6 pages, the next one over a hundred pages. Andy Edited 16 May , 2017 by stiletto_33853 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryBrook Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 In the 1939 Register "(Capt.) Arthur Angers" born 1 May 1883 was living at 17, Cromwell Grove, Hammersmith, London, and his occupation was recorded as "Consulting Electrical Engineer". He had married Florence Sarah McCormick in quarter 3 of 1908 in the West Derby, Lancashire District. In the 1911 census, details not to hand, he was an "Electrical Contractor". Arthur Angers died in quarter 4 of 1952 in the Camberwell, London District, his age was given as 70 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 16 May , 2017 Share Posted 16 May , 2017 (edited) Some biographical information (whoops, Harry got there first) Born on Liverpool Q3/1882 Marriage to (Florence) Sarah McCormick Q3/1908 1911 census – both living at 18 Bristol Road, Wavertree. No children. Arthur was an Electrical Contractor Quite a few items in the Liverpool press in the early war years shown him to be part of the Wavertree Rifle Corps Liverpool Daily Post 02/05/17 “Arthur Angers to be temp. lieut. 14th April 1917” Daughter Audrey born in 1919, Liverpool 1939 Register – Sarah and Audrey are at 38 Greenbank Road, Liverpool 1941 defendant in a court case over expenses but found not guilty. Appears to be living in London Died 1952, Camberwell Edited 16 May , 2017 by Stephen Nulty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casperdog Posted 16 May , 2017 Author Share Posted 16 May , 2017 Wow. I think some things are now fitting into place. Many thanks Andy, Harry and Stephen. You've opened up an aspect I'd had no knowledge of whatsoever . My family lived at 34 Greenbank Road Liverpool, his 'widow' lived next door and she told us he was killed in the war (WW1 that is). Strange. It seems there were things happening, but perhaps not in the way we were told, or I was told as a child. We were next door neighbours, so out of respect to the family it's probably not right to say what seems to have occurred. As next door neighbours to ''Mrs Angers'' we were led to believe he had died in The Great War. When I was a child , I remember Audrey, their daughter, she suffered as what was then known as a 'spastic' she had it mildly and was an intelligent and motivated person. In fact they opened a home for spastics called ''Angers House'' (in Wavertree, Liverpool, at the bottom of Church Road). That is why I posted that ''he'd died in action'' he clearly didn't die and lived into the 1950s. Our family were led to believe Mr. Angers had died in The Great War. Almost more interesting than what I thought I'd known previously! Curious. Here's me thinking since 1966 he was 'killed in action'. Oh well. Once again many thanks for the brilliant detective work ! Amazing I am gob smacked. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheridanP Posted 24 May , 2018 Share Posted 24 May , 2018 Hello, I am writing my dissertation on the Transport Workers Battalions. As Stephen said, the 16th South Lancs TW Battalion was raised in April 1917 to work in the docks of Merseyside. These were home service battalions who worked in ports and on the canals and rivers. They were not Labour Corps or Army Service Corps or Inland Water Transport (as I have seen them misattributed!) Did you ever get the record from the National Archives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casperdog Posted 20 July , 2018 Author Share Posted 20 July , 2018 On 24/05/2018 at 10:34, SheridanP said: Hello, I am writing my dissertation on the Transport Workers Battalions. As Stephen said, the 16th South Lancs TW Battalion was raised in April 1917 to work in the docks of Merseyside. These were home service battalions who worked in ports and on the canals and rivers. They were not Labour Corps or Army Service Corps or Inland Water Transport (as I have seen them misattributed!) Did you ever get the record from the National Archives? Hi, no I didn't get to the National Archive. The story is fascinating however, from a social history point of view. His (first) wife Florence I think, always told folk (including my Mum and Dad) that ''he'd been killed in the war''. So we all thought he'd died ''in action''. He hadn't and I think there had been other things going on. He actually lived and post WW1 lived in London. I was a young lad and our family lived next door to his first wife and that is how I got Arthur's sword; always thinking he was (In my mind) a leader of men as he gallantly led his men 'over the top', he was in the Transport Worker Battalion of the 16th South Lancashire regt. As far as I can see all his Army service was UK based? I still have his sword at home and now I know the history of Arthur it makes me give a wry smile as the mis match between what his wife said of him and that he did not die in war but live until his 70s in London. I suppose his work was logistical in nature and in that sense, we forget much of the support aspects of the British Army in WW1. They supplied the men at the front. If you get anything about Arthur Anger's work do let me know. Regards, Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SheridanP Posted 24 July , 2018 Share Posted 24 July , 2018 Thanks for that information, fascinating, I will definitely keep you posted! There were about 35,000 men in the TW Battalions, but I'll shunt him towards the front of the queue!! Sheridan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer A Posted 7 March , 2023 Share Posted 7 March , 2023 Hello, I have been re-mounting my mothers old photographs and have come across one of Arthur Angers, in uniform. He was married to my mother's, mother's sister (Aunt) called Florence. My mother, now 96, grew up in the Greenbank area of Liverpool in Arlington Avenue just off Greenbank Road. Arthur and Flo had a daughter called Audrey, who was in those days described as spastic. There was a Home named after her in the Wavertree area. I do not have any information about Arthur but it was a amazing to read the information you have collected about him. Jennifer A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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