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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Dress uniform of Leinster regiment.


beardymouse

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My grand uncle was a company sergeant major and I want to make a uniform in his honour but need insignia amd colours

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In your photo he is sergeant wearing India Pattern scarlet frock ...... a pattern unique to India by that period.

When did he he achieve Csm and where? It makes a huge difference to lots of uniform azpects.

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France 1917. The scarlet frock. Is it wool? And what colour piping and what is on the epaulette etc. Or can you give me a link? Thankyou for your information by the way.

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He certainly would not get back into scarlet Home Service until 1919 at the earliest ........... if he stayed in until then.

 

His CSM uniform is a complex ask, I or Frogsmile will come back to this for you.

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On 11 May 2017 at 23:41, beardymouse said:

France 1917. The scarlet frock. Is it wool? And what colour piping and what is on the epaulette etc. Or can you give me a link? Thankyou for your information by the way.

 

The thing is that he almost certainly never wore a full dress tunic so unless he went to India or another foreign station after the war he is unlikely to have worn any uniform other than drab service dress or blue patrols.  Does he have to be CSM, why not depict him as the rank shown if you are determined to use scarlet?

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What rank is he shown in the photo. This is the uniform I want to make. Is this red and the sash what colour would it be. I'm sorry for being a pain but I know almost nothing about British uniforms

 

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Hello beardymouse, and welcome to the Forum!

 

The rank badges are those of an ordinary sergeant. The sash would be crimson.

 

Ron

 

 

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Regarding colour

All you need is a good quality modern foto of a Guards sergeant in Home Service scarlet. The piping on cuffs etc for your man is white

The rank badge gold braid.

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On 5/16/2017 at 08:39, Ron Clifton said:

Hello beardymouse, and welcome to the Forum!

 

The rank badges are those of an ordinary sergeant. The sash would be crimson.

 

Ron

 

 

 

Ron, with the greatest respect, only the battalion staff (staff sergeants) had crimson sashes. made in a distinctive herringbone weave.  Later these were reserved for warrant officers.  The man shown, a sergeant, wore a scarlet worsted sash made in a different, plain weave.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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I am away from my sources at the moment but I'm sure you are right. I thought that there was only one type of "sash, serjeants'".

 

Ron

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Whereas Clothing Regs 1909 [for example] merely list "sashes, warrant officers, staff sergeants and sergeants" as one item, the Priced Vocab 1907 [for example] has "sashes silk" cost 7/9- for WO and staff, and also "sashes worsted" cost 1/6- for sergeants..

I have never been sure if the undoubted difference in colour was deliberate or specification drift .............. the water colours etc of the period suggest to me that the modern versions [as per Foot Guards] show greater crimson/scarlet contrast than in our period of interest.

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6 hours ago, Muerrisch said:

Whereas Clothing Regs 1909 [for example] merely list "sashes, warrant officers, staff sergeants and sergeants" as one item, the Priced Vocab 1907 [for example] has "sashes silk" cost 7/9- for WO and staff, and also "sashes worsted" cost 1/6- for sergeants..

I have never been sure if the undoubted difference in colour was deliberate or specification drift .............. the water colours etc of the period suggest to me that the modern versions [as per Foot Guards] show greater crimson/scarlet contrast than in our period of interest.

 

There were problems with creating colour fast dyes as you know but by the late 1890s imported dyestuffs from Germany (ironically) were producing good results.  I think that the crimson tone was deliberate and intended to be closer in appearance to the shade worn by officers thus following the quasi officer dress of staff sergeants. By far the biggest difference though was not so much the shade as the distinctive and rather attractive herringbone weave.

Edited by FROGSMILE
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