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Remembered Today:

Enlistment date for Harold Murfin, South Staffordshire Regiment


tyrese

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I am trying to find out two things about a great-uncle who died in WW1.

1. When he was likely to have enlisted - hopefully from his service number. It doesn't have to be the exact day. Is there anywhere I can find this out?

2.He died rather than was killed - he suffered from asthma as a child and that might have been a cause of death. Are there any records, which might have his name on if he was admitted to a hospital?

 

He was Herbert Harold Murfin,

Service number 242169.

South Staffordshire Regiment; 2nd/6th Battalion.

Secondary Regiment: Army Service Corps.

Secondary Unit: Attached 629th Mechanical Transport Company

Date of Death: 10-07-1917.

Age: 19.

 

Jayden

Edited by tyrese
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The soldiers effects records should help with that.  I'll take a look in the morning if no one else does first.

 

Craig

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Hi Jayden, 

 

Because of the renumbering of Territorial Force in 1917, his 2/6 Btn service number is from that period so a normal cross reference with similar numbers from the 2/6 Btn is inconclusive. 

 

Sorry Andy

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The war gratuity shows he had 14 months qualifying service at the time of his death - his indicates enlistment June 1916 (assuming no breaks in his service).
 

The June 1916 date and his age would be suggestive of a conscript under the Military Service Act 1916.

 

The effects records don't give a reason for his death or a place (other than 'France').'Soldiers Died Great War' confirms he 'died' - used of 'died' generally indicates it was for some other reason than enemy action, so illness or accident etc.

There is a record here which may be him on a casualty list from 1917 - https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/search/master/?master_event=Military&person_event=Casualty+List%3A+Killed&type=person&source=&search_type=person&fn=harold&phonetic_mode_fn=1&sn=murfin&phonetic_mode_sn=1&kw=&yr=&range=10&search=Search - . i 'think' the site does a 14 day free trail which would allow you to check the record.

 

Craig

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Thank you Craig, that sounds right because he would have been 18 in 1916. My husband and I visited his grave last summer and in the cemetery book it said, "died of sickness." 

I will have a look at the Genealogist site later this morning. 

 

Thank you again,

Jayden

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36 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

The war gratuity shows he had 14 months qualifying service at the time of his death - his indicates enlistment June 1916 (assuming no breaks in his service).
 

The June 1916 date and his age would be suggestive of a conscript under the Military Service Act 1916.

 

The effects records don't give a reason for his death or a place (other than 'France').'Soldiers Died Great War' confirms he 'died' - used of 'died' generally indicates it was for some other reason than enemy action, so illness or accident etc.

There is a record here which may be him on a casualty list from 1917 - https://www.thegenealogist.co.uk/search/master/?master_event=Military&person_event=Casualty+List%3A+Killed&type=person&source=&search_type=person&fn=harold&phonetic_mode_fn=1&sn=murfin&phonetic_mode_sn=1&kw=&yr=&range=10&search=Search - . i 'think' the site does a 14 day free trail which would allow you to check the record.

 

Craig

The record is the War Office Casualty list for 242169 HH Murfin South Staffs Regt & is under the names of "died" rather than killed.

 

Andy

 

 

Screenshot_20170503-072406.jpg

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The 2/6 South Staffordshire regiment was part of the 59th (2nd South Midland) Division which joined the BEF in February 1917

see http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/59th-2nd-north-midland-division/

 

As only his six digit number is shown he could not have gone to France before that date. Conscripted at 18 he would have been posted to a unit for 'Home Service' before attaining the age of 19 for posting on active service overseas, though this was not always honoured especially in the TF.

 

He appears to be in a group of men who went to France who were previously in  the Leicester Regiment.  They were in a draft who went to France on or around 10th April 1917 (no earlier than that date  and were renumbered to the 2/6 South Staffs.  I could only find one service record to confirm this so some caution is needed.  However, looking at SDGW in the same series shows men who were previously in the Leicester Regiment which affords some corroboration.  However given his home address it's possible he was in a TF Bn of the Sherwood Foresters difficult to pin it down without a service record.

 

Unfortunately the war diary does not show the date they were received, or the numbers in the draft which would give more confidence.

His death certificate might give cause of death

Ken

Edited by kenf48
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Hi Jayden,

 

13 hours ago, tyrese said:

Are there any records, which might have his name on if he was admitted to a hospital?

 

After the war a representative sample of hospital admission/discharge records was retained. They are in the MH 106 series held by the National Archives, and are currently being transcribed by Forces War Records. Unfortunately, there doesn't appear to be anything for Harold at the moment.

 

From the index to war deaths (available on Findmypast here), his register entry reads [year/volume/page]:  "1917    I.49    235". NB - it's a capital i in the volume reference, rather than a one. Using that reference you should be  able to get a copy death certificate from the General Register Office which might give you some more detail.

 

Regards

Chris

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There is a short announcement in the Births, marriages and deaths column of the Nottingham Evening Post dated 26th July 1917.

 

It states "MURFIN - Died of wounds on July 10th, Private Herbert Harold, South Staffords, the dearly loved son of E. and M Murfin, 13, Bentinck-street, Hucknall, in his 20th year. Thy will be done."

 

 

 

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A big thank you to all of you who have taken the time to look up for information on my Great-Uncle Harold Murfin - and to reply. It is very much appreciated. I will follow up the suggestions. And all the information ties in with:-

.1 His age - he was born 18/11/1897..

 2. I know he didn't volunteer straightaway as family narrative says that he was a sickly child/young man. He was sent a white feather in a letter put through their letter-box, so either he then signed up or was conscripted because they wouldn't have sent the white feather until he was 18.

 

His surviving family - one niece and quite a few great-nieces will be delighted with this information as we didn't ask our parents when we should have.

 

Many thanks again.

 

Jayden

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Just now, tyrese said:

A big thank you to all of you who have taken the time to look up for information on my Great-Uncle Harold Murfin - and to reply. It is very much appreciated. I will follow up the suggestions. And all the information ties in with:-

.1 His age - he was born 18/11/1897..

 2. I know he didn't volunteer straightaway as family narrative says that he was a sickly child/young man. He was sent a white feather in a letter put through their letter-box, so either he then signed up or was conscripted because they wouldn't have sent the white feather until he was 18.

 

His surviving family - one niece and quite a few great-nieces will be delighted with this information as we didn't ask our parents when we should have.

 

Many thanks again.

 

Jayden

The war gratuity (post 5) indicates June 16 for enlistment - at that time, unless you enlisted as a regular soldier, then there was no voluntarily enlistment for an 18/19 year old. It was conscription only (unless he was a deferred Derby Scheme volunteer, which is unlikely in this case)

Craig

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