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Remembered Today:

1914 Star with Clasp only


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Is the clasp for the 1914 Star issues separately to the roses? If so, what are the requirements to receive both please? TIA

 

 

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Clasp only.jpg

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Hi,

 

Clasp was issued for wear with 1914 Star medal and roses issued for wear on uniform medal ribbon. Don't  know the answer to your "issue together" query but it strikes me that if an entitled soldier applied after his discharge from the army then perhaps only the clasp was issued as there would be no requirement for roses?

 

Steve Y

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I have a typical strip of typed paper from the army advising an ex soldier to wear the rose insignia on his 1914 star until subsequent changes are made, or words to that effect, essentially it meant until the clasp was issued.

 

khaki

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Thanks Steve and Khaki. Essentially roses were issued if the soldier survived? Am I overthinking it?

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Of 2 Gt Uncles entitled to the Clasp (and Roses), the MIC of the one KIA states simply "Clasp" then the reference, sadly the one who survived couldn't have applied as his MIC only shows the 1914 Star trio and SWB.

 

Sam

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2 hours ago, Bardess said:

Thanks Steve and Khaki. Essentially roses were issued if the soldier survived? Am I overthinking it?

 

Thinking more about my initial response in light of Khaki's comments I would agree that survivors were issued with the 2 roses and the clasp.

 

There would be post war occasions when an entitled discharged soldier would be engaged in non military uniform wearing employment when wearing of a medal ribbon would be appropriate e.g. Police, Fire Service, British Legion Corps of Commissionaires etc. The placement of the rose(tte) on the ribbon would differentiate a 1914 Star entitlement from a 1914/15 Star entitlement.

 

Hoepfully a forum member will be along to quote full chapter and verse from the appropriate Army Order.

 

Steve Y

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3 hours ago, tullybrone said:

The placement of the rose(tte) on the ribbon would differentiate a 1914 Star entitlement from a 1914/15 Star entitlement.

 

Not just the 1914 Star and 1914/15 Star but a 1914 Star where the man hadn't been under fire or within range of mobile artillery.

 

Sam

Edited by roughdiamond
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9 minutes ago, roughdiamond said:

 

Not just the 1914 Star and 1914/15 Star but a 1914 Star where the man hadn't been under fire or within range of mobile artillery or a man who earned the 1914 Star between 23nd November and 31st December.

 

Sam

Men who crossed to France after 23 November 1914 do not qualify for the 1914 Star medal They are due the 1914-15 Star.

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You are of course correct, lesson learned, don't type in a hurry,post amended.

 

2 hours ago, horatio2 said:

Men who crossed to France after 23 November 1914 do not qualify for the 1914 Star medal They are due the 1914-15 Star.

 

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I believe, possibly, that the rose part of the award was given, with a ribbon, so that the recipient could wear this on a tunic before the award of the medal was made.

But I've been wrong before!

 

Trev

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1 hour ago, Trev2386 said:

I believe, possibly, that the rose part of the award was given, with a ribbon, so that the recipient could wear this on a tunic before the award of the medal was made.

But I've been wrong before!

 

Trev

 

I received my Op Telic medal with Clasp and Rose all together, you can't wear the ribbon till you receive the medal. I earned the bar to my Op Telic medal in 2003 but didn't receive them till 2006, I wouldn't have even considered wearing the ribbon till then.

The rose has a very specific purpose and that's along with the ribbon bar to mirror the medals when they have been taken off a garment they are entitled to be worn with e.g. when in No2 dress and you enter a bar or on a police/Fire Service uniform when on daily duty and it's impractical to wear Medals.

 

Sam

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Thanks Sam. I think on re-reading this thread I am edging towards only surviving soldiers receiving the roses

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roughdiamond

Diane

Of the 10 other men listed on the same page as my Gt Uncle, he and the 2 others KIA simply have "Clasp" on their MIC, they were Scots Guards and their MIC's were for the 1914 Star trio, my other Gt Uncle who survived had 7 of 12 men listed KIA, they were Royal Dublin Fusiliers and their 1914 Star was on a separate card, of those 7, 2 had "Clasp" on their MIC and 5 had nothing! There was also nothing on their War and Victory MIC, Curiously both men who had "Clasp" on their MIC had a "C" in the "To be left blank for use in War Office" column, the last column on the page, they were the only ones (survivors and KIA) with an annotation in that column.

 

Sam

Edited by roughdiamond
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2 hours ago, Bardess said:

Thanks Sam. I think on re-reading this thread I am edging towards only surviving soldiers receiving the roses

 

I am pretty sure I have seen MIC's updated with "clasp and roses" to other 14 star men who lost their lives.

 

Regards,

Mike

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Admiralty Fleet Order 4036/1919, announcing the Clasp to the 1914 Star stated inter alia: "....regulations for the award of the clasp ... Two roses will be issued with each clasp ... The clasps [presumably including the roses] earned by deceased Officers and men will be issued to their legatees or next of kin entitled to receive them." I see little point (and a lot of administration) in separating out the roses from the clasp awards to n.o.k. They were entitled to receive both whether or not they could 'use' the roses on a medal ribbon.

 

Perhaps the army had a different (better?) way of handling the issue.

Edited by horatio2
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Interesting. Thanks Sam, Mike and h2. I can't say that I've seen 'clasp only' before and don't really understand why it would be necessary to differentiate

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43 minutes ago, Bardess said:

Interesting. Thanks Sam, Mike and h2. I can't say that I've seen 'clasp only' before and don't really understand why it would be necessary to differentiate

 

Having dug around a bit amongst MIC's for a few 14 Stars to casualties in my collection, I am changing my mind! - I've looked at 3 so far, and they just state "Clasp". Not as definitive as "Clasp only", but possibly clear enough!

 

Regards,

Mike

Edited by Medaler
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Thanks Mike. It's too close to bedtime for me now but I will certainly take a look later today ^_^

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RaySearching
21 hours ago, tullybrone said:

 

 

 

Hoepfully a forum member will be along to quote full chapter and verse from the appropriate Army Order.

 

Steve Y

 

clasp.JPG.8f2bae7fd270b16ca33e615143324591.JPG

 

 

Ray

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Ray, you beauty. Tantalising information! I wonder what "to each approved individual" means? Would there be other criteria explained elsewhere?

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RaySearching

Appendix A

 

one.JPG.36ee740b5b2604538ddb6bd716b2f9ea.JPG

 

two.JPG.a544e73085a57d598710005647a257d4.JPG

 

three.JPG.240ffe2b8d9e49ec10f9b16a5e1cdb59.JPG

 

Ray

 

Post Edited to include additional units previously missed of the above post

 

four.JPG.e3952af2705d9bb07f48674dc826c4f4.JPG

 

Five.JPG.423bda0104ec42716a749adf684af0b4.JPG

 

six.JPG.5a84c334d9fb6e3925514ee6abdd9b29.JPG

 

seven.JPG.b95e7633007ef122f695cd89afe6eafc.JPG

 

Ray

Edited by RaySearching
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20 hours ago, roughdiamond said:

 

I received my Op Telic medal with Clasp and Rose all together, you can't wear the ribbon till you receive the medal. I earned the bar to my Op Telic medal in 2003 but didn't receive them till 2006, I wouldn't have even considered wearing the ribbon till then.

The rose has a very specific purpose and that's along with the ribbon bar to mirror the medals when they have been taken off a garment they are entitled to be worn with e.g. when in No2 dress and you enter a bar or on a police/Fire Service uniform when on daily duty and it's impractical to wear Medals.

 

Sam

 

See, I told you that I've been wrong before. On my mind was the wearing of a ribbon before being awarded the medal, as in an investiture for instance.

 

Trev

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