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Remembered Today:

trajan

Medals of the Central Powers

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Khaki

One must also remember that in society, officers were called upon to wear their medals in various arrangements, so medal bars with 5,6, 7 or more medals may have required the ownership of  several arrangements apart from the standard military horizontal. I have actually seen a large group including the Ek2 designed to be worn in a diagonal arrangement in line with the lapel of a formal evening dress. Sorry I can't recall where I saw it.

khaki

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robins2

one of my sets, would appreciate ID of last three medals, Iron Cross has no makers stamp on ring, of interest the gold colored medal stamped 1915 - 1918??

 

regards

 

Bob R.

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20170426_204437.jpg

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trajan
8 hours ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

... Yes, that is right: West Wall Medal. It simply reads: '1-11-40 Deutsches-Schutzwall-Ehrenzeichen (Nr. 42151) F. d. R. Hofmann, Major.' (Für die Richtigkeit: proved to be correct.)

 

Fascinating story! And thanks for explaining that text - Deutsches-Schutzwall-Ehrenzeichen and the F.d.R I had unscrambled the 'wall' in the first but was otherwise quite lost!

 

Best wishes,

 

Julian

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trajan
2 hours ago, Khaki said:

... I have actually seen a large group including the Ek2 designed to be worn in a diagonal arrangement in line with the lapel of a formal evening dress.

 

In one of my web forays I saw something similar - a photograph of an elderly chap sitting down next to his standing wife, if I recall it correctly, with his medals in a diagonal arrangement... Hopefully in an idle moment I'll come across it again... 

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trajan
1 hour ago, robins2 said:

one of my sets, would appreciate ID of last three medals, Iron Cross has no makers stamp on ring, of interest the gold colored medal stamped 1915 - 1918??

 

Nice group there!

 

Just to be going on with - as this is outside my field - the middle one is - I am pretty certain - the Hungarian version of the KuK WW1 commemorative medal (Hungarian coat of arms and legend 'For Country and God'), and the last one is a long service medal of some kind - for the KuK army?

 

Note that not all EK apparently have their suspension rings maker-marked. As for the 'Hindenburg Cross', I have a list of maker-marks I downloaded from somewhere but I can't find a set of initials to match yours...

 

Trajan

 

 

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Tony N

Bob,

 

The last three look like the Hungarian war remembrance medal, the Bulgarian war remembrance medal and a 3rd class medal for 9 years service issued to NCO's and OR's, awarded between 1913 and 1924 http://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/deutsche-staaten/militar-dienstauszeichnung-3-klasse-1913.html

 

Julian the mark on Bob's Hindenburg cross is PaKü for Paul Kuest.

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Khaki

Interesting that the German Cross of Honor (design committee) if there was such a thing elected to use 1914/1918 as opposed to the 1914/1919 (victory medal), considering that fighting inside Germany continued between the Freikorps and the Communists, and in the case of the returning soldiers who were with the various Freikorps units this was recorded in their soldbuchs, or so I believe.

 

khaki

Edited by Khaki

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robins2

thank you Tony/Trajan

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trajan
2 hours ago, Tony N said:

The last three look like the Hungarian war remembrance medal, the Bulgarian war remembrance medal and a 3rd class medal for 9 years service issued to NCO's and OR's, awarded between 1913 and 1924 http://www.ehrenzeichen-orden.de/deutsche-staaten/militar-dienstauszeichnung-3-klasse-1913.html

 

Julian the mark on Bob's Hindenburg cross is PaKü for Paul Kuest.

 

Bob, Tony,

 

What a mix, eh? German. German, Hungarian, Bulgarian, and German (or is that last one just Prussian?). 

 

Tony - Thanks for identifying the 'Hindenburg' marking - it was bugging me. Also, on the German site, I see reference to the 3rd class medal inlcudes the note: OEK Nummer: 1976 I guess that refers to a reference book of some kind, but which one?

 

Julian

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robins2
23 hours ago, robins2 said:

one of my sets, would appreciate ID of last three medals, Iron Cross has no makers stamp on ring, of interest the gold colored medal stamped 1915 - 1918??

 

regards

 

Bob R.

20170426_204325.jpg

20170426_204418.jpg

20170426_204513.jpg

20170426_204437.jpg

 

Pro Deo Et Patria:  For God and Country

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CROONAERT
On ‎26‎/‎04‎/‎2017 at 17:38, trajan said:

I assume the same one that is recorded for 1.11.40 in his Miltaerpass?

 

Not trying to confuse things, Julian, (nor am I being pedantic) but that entry is in his Wehrpass.

 

The Wehrpass was the replacement of the Militaerpass and was introduced upon the formation of the Reichswehr in 1919 and used from then on, throughout the Wehrmacht period and into the Bundeswehr.  Basically WW1 and earlier, it was the Militaerpass , and ,post WW1, it was the Wehrpass.

 

Dave

Edited by CROONAERT

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Khaki

One thing I read recently and may be of use to medal collectors is that some German veterans preferred to wear their crossed swords device inverted, that is, with the blades pointed down. Apparently this being done as a tribute to a 'lost' war. I have to admit to having in the past seen this but passed it off as being just incorrectly mounted by a veteran. If in the future I was to purchase such an example, again I would leave it as is, knowing what I now know.

 

khaki

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Khaki,

That was a new one on me: thanks for the (reversed) Crossed Swords information.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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Khaki
9 hours ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear Khaki,

That was a new one on me: thanks for the (reversed) Crossed Swords information.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Your welcome Kim,

Sometimes we get exposed to fragments of historical information that being, perhaps 'unofficial' and very individual in nature, could become lost to collectors unless recorded by us. I decided to post this despite having no evidence in support, in fact I can't even recall where I read it, the significance of it did not occur to me until I was reading and rereading this thread. Being unofficial may not be for the purists, but it is a reality of life that many things in the GW will not be found within the pages of original documentation.

regards

khaki

Edited by Khaki

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trajan
On 4/29/2017 at 02:24, CROONAERT said:

 

Not trying to confuse things, Julian, (nor am I being pedantic) but that entry is in his Wehrpass.

 

The Wehrpass was the replacement of the Militaerpass and was introduced upon the formation of the Reichswehr in 1919 and used from then on, throughout the Wehrmacht period and into the Bundeswehr.  Basically WW1 and earlier, it was the Militaerpass , and ,post WW1, it was the Wehrpass.

 

Dave

 

Thanks for the correction Dave - and pedantry ok by me as it is always best to get things correct wherever possible, and is a main part of the learning process!

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trajan

5908b20b834a5_ek201.jpg.4e63cacfd825bbe3f593f2c71915d488.jpg

 

Darned things keep jumping out at me crying 'Save me please!'... Much to the subdued (as yet!) annoyance of SWMBO...

 

So, another pair from Turkey, this time with ribbon bar as well (but of course no proof that they and the medals really belong together!). Again crossed swords on the 'Hindenburg' ribbon on the Ordnensspange... 

 

The EK maker looks to be 'KO', and if so, then Königliches Münzamt - as TonyN, post no.70 above. And perhaps they were the makers of the official award in the field???? Need to do some checking when time permits...

 

5908b25853024_ek203.jpg.ddf57c8d648bce64746958e99e9172ac.jpg

 

The 'Hindenburg' maker is "E S L in circle", and so Ernst Schneider of Lüdenscheid. It is surprisingly unworn, as is the one in the OP. I guess that there wan't much of an opportunity for many recipients to wear these after they began to be issued in 1934, the last ones being issued, I understand, in 1944 - see: http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/service_awards/hindenburg_cross.htm  (Couldn't check with the most obvious internet source as we can't get W.k..p..ia here at the moment as it has been blocked totally for apparently publishing an article critical of or questioning this country's official reports re: its involvement in another country to the south of us...!!! Yes, I am all ears!!!) 

 

5908b2536d898_ek202.thumb.jpg.9c3ceb567d0fdeeb5a343be82c06dae9.jpg

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Julian, aka trajan,

The equally-faded quality of the red stripe on ribbon bar and mounted EKII and Hindenburgkreuz, tells one convincingly that they belonged together.

Good work for saving these objects, which retain a macabre fascination a hundred years on...

As far as 'surprisingly unworn' was concerned, I think one will find that such medals were properly mounted for a special (even "one-off") occasion - for example, a Wedding in the family, or perhaps an important Parade or Reunion, for a civilian who happened to have been an ex-soldier during 1914-18.

Keep up the good work!

Kindest regards,

Kim. 

Edited by Kimberley John Lindsay

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trajan
13 hours ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

... The equally-faded quality of the red stripe on ribbon bar and mounted EKII and Hindenburgkreuz, tells one convincingly that they belonged together. ... Good work for saving these objects ... As far as 'surprisingly unworn' was concerned, I think one will find that such medals were properly mounted for a special (even "one-off") occasion - for example, a Wedding in the family, or perhaps an important Parade or Reunion ...

 

Dear Kim,

 

I was thinking along the same lines you set out so clearly. so thanks for reinforcing my thoughts! Not being a medal collector per se this is all new territory for me! But yes, the ribbon bar has that worn look of 'everyday' use whereas the medals themselves would be kept away for special events, as it were.

 

Fortunately, from the point of view of my pocket and SWMBO, German medals are rare here, so I happy to save the odd example when I see one - opr a pair plus, in this case. But if I was going to collect I would do so from European dealers, as prices over here for any form of WW1 related object are invariably 25%+ more than in Europe...

 

Best wishes,

 

Julian

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trajan

Another one of these ordensspange pairs of an EK II and EhrenK FrontK. with swords on the ribbon of the latter is posted on that well-known site eeh-bah-gum... No connection to the seller (although I am tempted to get this one!), but it is at:http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MEDAL-WW1-GERMAN-GROUP-OF-2-MEDALS-IRON-CROSS-2ND-CLASS-CROSS-OF-HONOUR-/302304196212?

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Julian,

As they say: 'Take it or Leave it"...!

Personally, seeing as you have such a specimen already, why not wait until something of a bit more "Quality" comes along.

This is oftentimes wiser than "buying up the Shop".

However, you will know best. Incidentally, what does SWMBO stand for (forgive my ignorance!).

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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Khaki

'she who must be obeyed'

 

khaki

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trajan
16 minutes ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

... 'Take it or Leave it"...! ... what does SWMBO stand for (forgive my ignorance!)

 

Dear Kim, 

 

Yes, I am minded that way, to leave it, and wait for something a little bit more interesting to come along... But we'll see. My first love remains the pointy things, the bayonets, but as one gets more attuned to the GW then the other aspects become very interesting also. And so medals and militarpassen - but never (heavens forfend!) uniforms and the like!

 

As for SWMBO, well, a term of some relatively recent antiquity...  She Who Must Be Obeyed, and so one's nearest and dearest female partner in life... I first became familiar with the expression from dear old Rumpole of the Bailey, but I understand it derives (according to Google!) from the "H. Rider Haggard novel, "She" (first published 1886). The character Ayesha, known as She-who-must-be-obeyed, the Queen of Death, the White Goddess,of the lost city of Kôr who rules her kingdom with terror, She is the very image of the Femme Fatale. To disobey her or to scorn her is to earn & receive instantaneous death."... Well, yes, death by my SWMBO from my bayonet collection is unlikely (says' he!), but e'en so, best to stay on good terms with her when it comes to purchasing GW items!

 

Best,

 

Julian

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Khaki

I sometimes, 'well frequently' , wish that I had specialized in collecting, but I bounce around depending on what I have been doing, reading or watching, I suppose there is a classification for it, but no cure.

khaki

 

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Medaler
1 hour ago, Khaki said:

I sometimes, 'well frequently' , wish that I had specialized in collecting, but I bounce around depending on what I have been doing, reading or watching, I suppose there is a classification for it, but no cure.

khaki

 

 

If it is any consolation, I follow that eclectic style too. British campaign medals were my first love and will ever remain so, but the collection stretches all the way from Waterloo to the Gulf. There are several gaps in it mind, and several duplications! My WW1 collecting only started about 8 years ago, and has now gone international. In addition to that, I went through a Japanese phase about 4 years ago. As for Julian's "pointy things", I have a fair few of those too (well, as medal collectors go, I suppose "quite a few" might be a better description). Then there are the cap badges, and a whole host of other stuff. As for SWMBO, I actually got her into collecting swagger sticks at one point.

 

I have been following this thread with interest, as German stuff is absolutely not a specialised subject. I own a couple of German medals, but nothing spectacular.

 

It's all part of the fun!

 

Cheers,

Mike

Edited by Medaler

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Julian, Mike, and khaki,

Collectively, we would all get on famously together in our respective Dens (with or without wives in obeyance). We could talk about, and show each other, the pointy things, the cross-shaped things, the round things, and the hundred-year old pictures of those who - perforce - made it all possible.

These latter (including my grandfather, for one), who happened to have been temporary practitioners of war, have allowed us, a la longue, to indulge such interests during an atmosphere of peace.

Personally, I have tried to specialize as much as possible - otherwise one quickly finds oneself looking around for empty barns for rent. Wives, even children, demand their "pound of flesh", as SWMBO implies, which has the positive side-effect of limiting one's collection of pointy, cross-shaped, and round things.

I have lately confined myself  to "Officers Only", which means more expense - but more documents and even a "Good Story". I concentrate on the much-neglected IARO, which narrows the possibilities even further.

Having said that, one inevitably buys an "out of bounds" item, and feels good about having done so! A recent example was a low-priced 1914-18 Pair and 37 Coro group to an Officer who married an aristocrat, became a diplomat, and lived to over 100 years of age...

Kindest regards,

Kim. 

Edited by Kimberley John Lindsay

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