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trajan

Medals of the Central Powers

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Julian,

Good find (to hell with the money!) - too bad about the lack of a photograph (aka Image).

Here again, you can nestle the Hindenburgkreuz ribbon, and that of the III Klasse medal, around the hanging devices, so that these are tucked out of sight.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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trajan
7 hours ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear Julian,

Good find (to hell with the money!) - too bad about the lack of a photograph (aka Image).

Here again, you can nestle the Hindenburgkreuz ribbon, and that of the III Klasse medal, around the hanging devices, so that these are tucked out of sight.

Kindest regards,

Kim.

 

Thanks Kim!

 

I meant to tuck the ribbon away but I was in a bit of a rush as the boys were due home from school! The paperwork is fascinating and I'll try to get it scanned today. This group, by the way, was found for me by a friend in the UK who collects 3R groups but who kindly keeps an eye out for WW1 groups that might take my fancy. The only problem - apart from finances! - being that to stay on the safe side, I can only collect and have and hold when I get to the UK... :(

 

Best wishes,

 

Julian 

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trajan

Actually KIm, perhaps you can help me understand the reason why a number of WW1 soldiers were awarded the Bavarian Dienstauszeichnung 3.Klasse 1913 medal for nine years service - I have no books on this. I assume that when first introduced it was awarded to the core element / cadre of the various Bavarian regiments, the long-service guys who kept the machine going during the successive conscription periods.

 

But several Bavrian groups include this medal, and some of these - as with mine - went to men who served in WW1 only. I know that during the Weimar period, it was a given that one year's service in WW1 was equal to two years normal service, so did this apply to these Dienstauszeichnung 3.Klasse 1913 award also, i.e., 1914-1919 war service counted as nine normal service years?

 

Best,

 

Julian

 

 

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AOK4
18 minutes ago, trajan said:

Actually KIm, perhaps you can help me understand the reason why a number of WW1 soldiers were awarded the Bavarian Dienstauszeichnung 3.Klasse 1913 medal for nine years service - I have no books on this. I assume that when first introduced it was awarded to the core element / cadre of the various Bavarian regiments, the long-service guys who kept the machine going during the successive conscription periods.

 

But several Bavrian groups include this medal, and some of these - as with mine - went to men who served in WW1 only. I know that during the Weimar period, it was a given that one year's service in WW1 was equal to two years normal service, so did this apply to these Dienstauszeichnung 3.Klasse 1913 award also, i.e., 1914-1919 war service counted as nine normal service years?

 

Best,

 

Julian

 

 

 

If I'm not mistaken, war years counted double for the Dienstauszeichnungen.

 

Jan

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trajan
1 minute ago, AOK4 said:

 

If I'm not mistaken, war years counted double for the Dienstauszeichnungen.

 

Jan

 

That's what I am thinking... My only supporting 'evidence' is a Bavarian regulation of 1919 concerning the wearing of bayonets which states that with regard to GW 'veterans' in the Reichswehr, and their right to wear their GW service bayonet, each war year equalled two normal years.

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AOK4

I can confirm from an official source that war years counted double (information from "Auskunftsbuch der 3. Armee").

 

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trajan
On 11/09/2018 at 18:23, AOK4 said:

I can confirm from an official source that war years counted double (information from "Auskunftsbuch der 3. Armee").

 

 

Sorry for the late reply - and thanks for the confirmation. I hope to start scanning the paperwork for the Renk group (above, post 275) later today - subject to my Saturday taxi service routine ferrying my sons to different places for different sports...:wacko:

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depaor01

Picked up this bar - a Kyffhäuserbund Kriegsdenkmedaille 1914-18 and a  Preussischer Landes Kriegern Verband (Prussian State Veterans Association) merit cross [edit - I see this one featured early in the thread]. Missing from the group was the Iron Cross. I have a suitable replacement currently suspended from a modern ribbon. I suspect the original cross was hung from the blue felt at left...

20181026_220803.thumb.jpg.3d87d75ded319bba408630328f4d35a6.jpg

and folded like this...

 

20181026_220727.thumb.jpg.e296a9c238a2d548fa3d5253abaefa54.jpg


Hoping to recreate the group so any tips appreciated!

 

Dave

Edited by depaor01

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Dave,

You have it just about right. It just needs a bit of sewing!

I attach some similar onesG017175thumb.jpg.f8b2fd0469da9c188b88ee9615577e77.jpg1074950071_BadenOtherRank.jpg.ae9dd7b89b1f42b863d0f254290b5dcd.jpgG013572thumb.jpg.937fd90475157004ee83b3421efa2310.jpg. You could see to it that the crossed swords are not covered (just nestle the EKII ribbon under the left part of the swords).

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Edited by Kimberley John Lindsay

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depaor01
3 minutes ago, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

Dear Julian,

You have it just about right. It just needs a bit of sewing!

I attach some similar onesG017175thumb.jpg.f8b2fd0469da9c188b88ee9615577e77.jpg1074950071_BadenOtherRank.jpg.ae9dd7b89b1f42b863d0f254290b5dcd.jpgG013572thumb.jpg.937fd90475157004ee83b3421efa2310.jpg. You could see to it that the crossed swords are not covered (just nestle the EKII ribbon under the left part of the swords).

Kindest regards,

Kim.

Thanks for that Kim, and especially the swords tip.

 

Julian... sorry...

Dave  ;)

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Dave,

Keep up the good work!

I have a group whereby the ribbons are more-or-less mounted in reverse (for some reason: Widow?), attached for your general interest.

Kindest regards,

Kim.1249971902_EKIIgroupDNWMay2017obv.jpg.c7225e58c474cd7e249c761a5f804b2d.jpg169294470_EKIIgroupDNWMay2017rev.jpg.91e076de8c310e0d9b8b0a8a4650a09b.jpg

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depaor01

Cheers Kim. Is there an order of wear for Imperial/ Weimar awards? It must run to several volumes!

Dave

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Kimberley John Lindsay

Dear Dave,

I have not seen an Order of Wear. 

One must bear in mind that it depended on which State/Principality etc the officer/soldier belonged to: i.e., a Bavarian would wear his Bavarian decoration before/in front of his Prussian or Baden etc., decoration. 

Having said that, my German wife's maternal grandfather was a Baden officer, but wore his Prussian EKII first (!). and Baden Zähringer, second... 

Kindest regards,

Kim.1569241285_LtnSchneiderobv.jpg.01306247af0fc3868cd15afeda73fc41.jpg

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depaor01

Makes sense. An impressive array of gongs Kim!

Dave

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trajan
On 27/10/2018 at 00:23, depaor01 said:

Picked up this bar - a Kyffhäuserbund Kriegsdenkmedaille 1914-18 and a  Preussischer Landes Kriegern Verband (Prussian State Veterans Association) merit cross [edit - I see this one featured early in the thread]. Missing from the group was the Iron Cross. I have a suitable replacement currently suspended from a modern ribbon. I suspect the original cross was hung from the blue felt at left...

20181026_220803.thumb.jpg.3d87d75ded319bba408630328f4d35a6.jpg

and folded like this...

 

20181026_220727.thumb.jpg.e296a9c238a2d548fa3d5253abaefa54.jpg


Hoping to recreate the group so any tips appreciated!

 

Dave

 

Interesting one! Yes, most probably an EK II, given how so many were awarded, but I have seen something similar recently over here with a Bavarian merit cross, a 10 year medal and, I think, a Kyffhäuserbund... Didn't buy it as the seller wanted too much and the ribbons were very faded, but certainly no EK II in that group!

 

Julian

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trajan
On 27/10/2018 at 00:44, depaor01 said:

Thanks for that Kim, and especially the swords tip.

 

Julian... sorry...

Dave  ;)

 

No problem there!

 

On 27/10/2018 at 00:49, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

.... I have a group whereby the ribbons are more-or-less mounted in reverse (for some reason: Widow?), attached for your general interest.1249971902_EKIIgroupDNWMay2017obv.jpg.c7225e58c474cd7e249c761a5f804b2d.jpg169294470_EKIIgroupDNWMay2017rev.jpg.91e076de8c310e0d9b8b0a8a4650a09b.jpg

 

I am missing something on the "reverse" aspect - kindly elucidate!

 

On 27/10/2018 at 02:36, Kimberley John Lindsay said:

... I have not seen an Order of Wear. 

One must bear in mind that it depended on which State/Principality etc the officer/soldier belonged to: i.e., a Bavarian would wear his Bavarian decoration before/in front of his Prussian or Baden etc., decoration. 

 

I have at least one example of the ribbon bar showing the EK II before the rest, whereas the medal order has the EK II second to the State award...

 

Julian

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