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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

POW - medal roll oddity


Phil Wood

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Looking at a POW - Tom Stanley Noakes, 20971 R Berks.

 

According to the Red Cross (dated 20 Oct 1918) he was taken prisoner 27 May 1918 while serving with the 2nd Berks.

 

According to his medal roll entry (VM/BWM) he also served with the 6th R Berks (he was frrom Newbury, Berks so no surprise to find him in the local regiment).

 

And now the oddity - the medal roll is an East Surrey Regt roll -  where he has the regimental number 50377.

 

What is he doing on an East Surrey roll? Did they transfer returning POWs en masse to the East Surreys to be discharged (the medal roll page is all men from other regts with similar numbers).  He was also awarded a pension as an East Surrey man.

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And now the oddity - the medal roll is an East Surrey Regt roll -  where he has the regimental number 50377.

 

#50373 was allocated to the East Surrey's on Aug 1919 to a man who was transferred from the Welsh Regiment (he had joined then in July 1919 from RDC). The transfer was made under ACI 219/19.

This man hadn't been a POW but it looks like the East Surrey Depot was possibly being used to hold and clear men for discharge.

Craig

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Thanks Craig that's what I was surmising - he does seem to have been on the strength of the East Surrey Depot rather than a battalion.

 

However, your reply raises the inevitable follow-on question - what was the content of ACI 219/19? 

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43 minutes ago, Phil Wood said:

Thanks Craig that's what I was surmising - he does seem to have been on the strength of the East Surrey Depot rather than a battalion.

#50373 certainly was, I suspect the surrounding numbers probably would be as well.

#50375 was also transferred on the same ACI - he came to the depot from an agricultural company.

It just seems like a general 'tidying up' and the East Surrey depot was where these men went. Presumably they used the existing structure of the depots which, for a regimental basis, would still have to exist after the war and used them as administrative hubs whilst everything else was being run down.
 

Quote

However, your reply raises the inevitable follow-on question - what was the content of ACI 219/19? 

Not a clue on that one - other than it's related to transfers in some way.

Craig

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25 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

Presumably they used the existing structure of the depots which, for a regimental basis, would still have to exist after the war and used them as administrative hubs whilst everything else was being run down.

 

What is odd in the case of Noakes is that he came from Newbury, the regimental depot was nearby in Reading - so why East Surrey?  I wonder if the men were patients in a hospital or hospitals in East Surrey? Noakes was discharged in Nov 1919 and very soon got a pension because of a 20% disablement due to enteritis; so he could well have been hospitalised. 

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Phil

It seems he was one of the men transferred from the 6th to the 2nd when the 6th was broken up. He went to France 19/9/15 and so got the 14/15 Star according to the R Berks Medal Roll. He was reported as having returned to England in the Berks Chron of 27/12/18. Len Wright (now regrettably deceased) had him down as 7th Bn which is compatible with his move to France date.

I am curious about the E Surrey connection but the then E Surrey depot was in Eastern Command and if he arrived back via Dover or Folkestone he would have had to be dealt with by them not Southern Command to which R Berks belonged. So its highly likely they would have sent him to one of their depots which was as close to his home as possible.

I also have a reference to him in the Berks Chron of 11/8/16 but I have had a quick scan through and cannot find the reference.

Some records have him as T S Stokes

 

regards

 

John

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Hi John,

 

I'm afraid I couldn't find either article when I checked the (poor) scans Reading Library has put online - I don't suppose you have page numbers to narrow it down.

 

Tom (not Thomas) Stanley Noakes (Stokes in your data) 20971 did not get a Star - he went to France 1916 or later and may well have been a conscript - I think Len was referring to Thomas Noakes 12013 

 

He wasn't discharged until Nov 1919 so they had plenty of time to get him to Reading if necessary!  He would certainly have gone to Newbury for his two month's furlough. My thinking here is that he would have been sent to Reading if it had not been evident that he was unfit to serve on. The delay in his discharge could also be explained by time spent in a military hospital. Of course he may have been as fit as a fiddle and re-enlisted for the bounty into the E Surreys.


I do have the following from the NWN:

 

Newbury Weekly News, 7 November 1918 Local War Notes

Mr and Mrs Noakes, of 20,  Oxford-street, Newbury, received a post-card last week from their son, Tom, of the Royal Berks, who was missing on May 27th,, to say he was a prisoner in the camp at Friedrichsfeld, near Waset, and that he was all right; and was anxiously awaiting a parcel.

 

PS Article requested is written, a quick proof check when my proof reader is available and you should get it this evening.

RCRec.jpg

MedRoll.jpg

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