G.L.O Shiner and L.G Shiner in Russia, any evidence?

[corisande]

Two brothers went to North Russia in 1919

 

Gordon Lloyd Owen Shiner - click for my notes on him

Leslie Gladstone Shiner - click for my notes on him

 

Both were Lieutenants in RAF prior to dispersal in 1919.

But LG Shiner returned to Royal Warwickshire Regiment as Lt

GLO Shiner was in 18th London Regt before RAF commission, but there is no record of his returning to Army

There is no mention of Russia on their RAF records.

 

GLO Shiner appears to have married, had a child,, in Russia in 1919, then left his wife. The court record when he claimed compensation for his wounds in Ireland in 1921 says he married a Russian when serving in Russia. The family believe that his brother Leslie also served in Russia in 1919 - told his family of the extreme cold there

 

I can find no evidence of either of them in Russia, either in RAF, or the Army (the Army would seem to be the more likely place they would have served.

 

Can anyone help with any references to either Shiner in Russia. Or if there are any examples of British Soldiers marrying Russians in 1919

 

 

[MaureenE]

There was a topic about a marriage in Southern Russia

Cheers

Maureen

[corisande]

Maureen

 

Thanks for the link. I guess that British Army/Russian Lady marriages may have been more common than I would have thought given the relatively short period of British deployment

 

I will try to track down if there is an Army Register of these marriages Though many were probably "informal"

[MaureenE]

 

This article  about the American Army contains a section about American soldiers marrying Russians in Siberia

Bolsheviks, Polar Bears, and Military Law The Experiences of Army Lawyers in North Russia and Siberia in World War I by Fred L Borch III

http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/Bolsheviks-Polar-Bears.pdf

 

Edit 8/11/2017: If the link doesn't open, the archived link is https://web.archive.org/web/20170222031309/http://www.loc.gov/rr/frd/Military_Law/pdf/Bolsheviks-Polar-Bears.pdf

 

From Prologue: Quarterly of the National Archives and Records Administration, 30:3, Fall 1998, 181-191

Cheers

Maureen

 

 

Edited 8 November , 2017 by Maureene

[corisande]

Thanks, that's interesting

 

American soldiers were falling in love, and a large number were deciding that they wanted to marry their Russian girlfriends.In the U.S.Army of the day, a soldier had to obtain his commanding officer's permission to marry. Apparently this permission was freely given, and the resulting marriages meant a number of legal questions for the expedition judge advocate. Could an army chaplain lawfully marry a soldier and his Russian girlfriend? Was a marriage ceremony performed by a Russian Orthodox priest valid under U.S. law? What rights did these new wives have to return with their husbands to the Philippine Islands? And when those husbands sailed home from the Philippines to the United States, what was the immigration status of these Russian-born wives? After some research, George McLean advised that a marriage performed by a chaplain was lawful, as was a marriage done by the local clergy in conformity with local law.The former, however, no doubt was easier to accomplish. Consequently, after obtaining permission from their commanding officers, soldiers routinely were married by AEF chaplains.

 

One wonders what attitude the British Army took to such marraiges

[MaureenE]

Another topic

Cheers

Maureen

[corisande]

Thanks Maureen

 

You are a fund of knowledge on this subject :-)

 

I see in that thread that you refer to un-indexed marriages. I will try that, but they may not have been registered

 

The FMP list of consular registered marriages in 1919 only gives Falklands and Egypt. And Military marriages appears to be blank for 1919