White Russian gallantry awards to British soldiers

[Patesian]

Rumour has it that some dedicated individual has carried out an extensive search at National Archives for details of those men who were recommended for awards by the "white" Russian commands 1919-1920.

A CD containing much information is mentioned.

Does anyone have any knowledge of this please?  I am trying to verify supposed awards to two soldiers who are photographed wearing the ribbons, but so far, attempts to obtain any confirmation have come to nothing.

Needless to say, I have already consulted the book "White Russian Awards" by Ray Brough, to no avail

Thank you, in advance, for any information.

Edited 1 April , 2017 by Patesian

[ForeignGong]

What are the names of the individuals you are checking???

 

Peter

[MaureenE]

There is a record series at the National Archives  WO 388 1914-1928 War Office: Military Secretary's Honours and Awards Branch: Exchange of Army Decorations between Britain and the Allies Registers

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/browse/r/r/C14592?

The description advises "Permission to accept and wear Russian decorations was not always gazetted but official lists of Army personnel who received un-gazetted Russian awards are included in this series."

 

WO 388/7 1914 Nov 01 - 1928 May 31 is a free download

Description:Decorations awarded to British and Dominion army personnel by the following countries: Belgium, China, Czechoslavakia, Egypt, Hedjaz, France, Greece, Italy, Japan, Montenegro, Nepal, Panama, Persia, Portugal, Roumania, Russia, Serbia, Siam, USA

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C11154712

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

 

[Patesian]

Thank you both for your input.

 

Maureen - I was aware of WO388 - it was the series of documents from which Ray Brough compiled his most useful book "White Russian Awards".  However, It's my belief that some further, more recent research has been carried out at Kew regarding servicemen whose names were omitted from the "published, but not necessarily gazetted" lists to which you most kindly referred me.

 

ForeignGong - the two individuals that I am most interested in are:  2/Lt (later Major) Leonard James Dilliway, Essex Regiment and Machine Gun Corps, whose application for his Russian Decoration is noted on his MIC,   and 26349 Sgt Walter F Kitney, MGC (Army of the Black Sea)  who was awarded the MSM (along with another soldier) for "gallant conduct" whilst serving with the British Military Mission to South Russia.  At least two others (of 7) Sergeants with this unit were awarded the  tsarist Medal for Zeal for their efforts in training "white" Russian recruits. 

 

If anyone does have any information about the most recent efforts on this subject, I would be most grateful to hear of it.

[ForeignGong]

I don't have either man on my database and the MIC of Dilliway is VERY interesting, especially as he is applying for them in what looks like 1926 or 28. Is there anything on his service papers, as I have a few men who have been awarded foreign awards, that have a notation on their papers but I have not been able to find anything else relating to the award, except 2 that were mentioned in the war diary. I have seen one officers papers stating that he received an empty medal case and was asking for the medal / decoration be sent to him, but the authorities answer was they did not receive the medal in the first place only the case.

The Russian awards not gazetted that I have on my database, as I'm from Australia, were supplied to me some years ago by a friend, who used to visit Kew a lot. When Ray's book came out I purchased it for comparison and found that I have approx. 50 more names than Ray's book. My friend passed away in the early 1990's, about the time of Ray's book, so the info that he was finding stopped.

There must be other files that are yet to surface.

If you do find what the awards were and / or what they were awarded for could you please let me know so I can add them to my database.

 

Peter

[Patesian]

Thank you for that Peter. It confirms my thoughts that there are other "awards" out there waiting to be confirmed.

As far as Dilliway is concerned, he served again in WWII and I felt it important enough to obtain copies of his file from the Veteran's Agency in Glasgow.

Sadly, this didn't provide an answer. Either they didn't send me the whole content (I'm not a relative), or the specific pages that might have helped, are missing!

I shall pursue this subject, whenever I can, at TNA and if anything comes to light, of course I will let you know.

Is your interest in "foreign" awards limited to WW1 ?

[ForeignGong]

You have to remember that service papers were weeded out over the years to make space for those service people yet to serve, hence pages missing.

Yes, up to 1925, which is the last LG I have found that relates to WW1. But, my database has some entries dating back to 1900.

Everyone raves about DCM's, MC's etc, don't get me wrong I also am very impressed with the imperial awards and how they are awarded, just that I find the foreign ones are so varied in design and usually a lot rarer in issue numbers. It has always fascinated me that a soldier / sailor fighting no where near or with say the Russians, can be awarded a Russian decoration.

I have, with the help of some members of this forum, been able to get quite a few citations / recommendations for foreign awards and most are the equivalent of a DCM, MC etc if the foreign award is for that type of action. I have found that the British authorities did stick to the guide lines of the original issuing country as to whether the award was for gallantry / bravery or for meritorious service.

I know a lot of historians, collectors do tend to look down on foreign awards, handed out with the rations, but most that I have read are hard won and could have easily been an imperial award, just that there were never enough of those to recognise every one.

Sorry I could go on for ever, but if your men were awarded any foreign award you can rest assured they really deserved it.

 

Good luck with you search.

Peter

[Guest]

Leonard James Dilliway was my Grandmother's brother.  I am doing research on all four of her brothers that were lost during the War for our Armistice Day in the village.  Did you manage to find any more information of Leonard?  Thank you kindly.  Ginny

[Dever Mayfly]

There was an inconsistency in the British Government's policy on "White" Awards.  Major General Tom Jameson, who commanded the Royal Navy's Kama River gunboats in 1919, wrote a short pamphlet Expedition to Siberia 1919 (Royal Marines Historical Society Special Publication Number 10 1987), in which he describes how he and others in the British Military Mission in Omsk were instructed by the British High Commissioner, Sir Christopher Eliot, to hand back all their White Awards presented by Admiral Kolchak's government to his crews.   

 

That said he and his crews didn't do too badly in the Siberian Honours announced on 5th March 1920: one DSO, two DSCs, one DSM, eight Military Service Medals and a MiD for their doctor. 

[seaJane]

Do you happen to remember who the doctor was, Dever?

Thanks

sJ

[horatio2]

Surgeon Lieutenant Henry Cyril Conwy JOYCE RN.  https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31811/supplement/2860

[Dever Mayfly]

Joyce was on the Headquarter ship Mariana, rather than the two gunboats (Kent and Suffolk), that were named after the HMSs on station in Vladivostok in the first part of 1919 and which donated their guns to the White flotilla.

[seaJane]

Thanks both!

[wrightdw]

Some more on White Russian awards during the Russian Civil War period below.

 

Neither Dilliway nor Kitson were granted 'Official Permission' by The King to accept and wear any White Russian awards in the War Office 'Confidential List' of July 1921.

 

A large number of White Russian awards conferred during the Civil War were never actually received, there being few actual medals available in White Russian Provisional Government controlled areas, in many cases the ribbon only (and an award document) was awarded.

 

The mother of an Australian volunteer who was awarded the MM Bar and Russian Cross of St. George 3rd Class in North Russia wrote to the Australian authorities after her sons death in 1922: " “I am holding the ribbon of ‘An order of St. George’ that he won in Russia. But up to date have received no medal to attach to it…I am particularly anxious about the Russian decoration as my deceased son thought such a lot of the ribbon and also he was anxiously waiting to get the medal or whatever form the decoration takes…So Sir in conclusion I fervently hope you can furnish me with same as I desire to hold it as a treasure and honour. "

 

The Australian Army reply is attached below: