2nd Battalion Loyal North Lancs.

[KONDOA]

Evening Chums,

I found a reference the other day but now cannot place where I found it regarding the Machine Gun Section of the LNL in East Africa.

Whilst it is known that the main body of the Loyal Lancs left East Africa in early 1916, the reference indicated that the MG section stayed behind and continued the fight down to the Rufigi.

Can any Chum shed any further light on this from Battalion Diaries etc.

Roop

[CROONAERT]

The 1st MG Coy under Major RE Berkeley was in East Africa May-December 1916 and the 2nd MG Coy (Mjr Berkeley again), later to become 259 Coy, MGC, was there Dec 1916 to december 1917.

Also in E.Africa and a detached unit of the 2/Loyals was a small 12pdr Battery under Capt. Logan 1914-16 and a Mounted Infantry Unit under Capt. Woodruffe, then Capt Atkinson Aug. 1915- July 1916.

There is a whole chapter devoted to these units in the Regimental History, with 12 pages dedicated to the MG Coys alone. need to know anything specific?

Dave.

[KONDOA]

Dave,

Thanks a million for that as it has clarified a few things.

Firstly my grandfather always said the Loyal Lancs were with him in EA. However I began to doubt this a few weeks ago when a thread on the forum indicated that the LNL left EA just as GF was arriving. I assumed he had passed them in the transit camp at Mombassa. This information makes his recollection more in character as he was not normally and has not yet found to be incorrect.

I would be interested in more specifics about any engagements (just a brief listing please) which would allow me to place them more accurately. This would be for the MG section, 12 pounder and the Mounted troops.

One of the almost unrecorded battles of this war is that at "Black Rock" which has been buried in the general heading of Kondoa Irangi which is slightly different although in the same place. I would like to know if the LNL were involved here or if it was on the Central Railway that GF met up with them.

Many Thanks in advance .

Roop

[Robert Dunlop]

The British Official History records that 2/LNL were withdrawn to South Africa to recuperate from the effects of dysentery and malaria in early April. Kondoa Irangi took place after this.

Robert

[KONDOA]

Hi Robert,

That was my understanding as was discussed in the previous thread some weeks ago.

Its only that last weekend I found a snippet to contrasdict the general assumption which Dave has been able to verify.

Roop

[haworthnick]

I am in the process of researching a William Marshall of the 2nd Batt Loyal North Lancs, who died at sea along with 16 others (according to SDGW) on the 4th MAy 1917, please can somone shed any more light on this please.

Nick

[KONDOA]

From the LLT,

2nd Battalion

August 1914 : in Bangalore, India.

3 November 1914 : Landed at Tanga, German East Africa, with the 27th Indian Brigade. Moved to Mombasa on 7 November and commenced operations in East Africa.

Moved in May 1916 to South Africa, to allow for recovery from mass ill-health.

18 January 1917 : Moved to Egypt, landing at Suez.

14 April 1917: attached to 232nd Brigade in 75th Division. The Battalion was moved in rapid succession to the 233rd and 234th Brigades of the same Division, and then detached as a result of a medical board on 9 August 1917. Proceeded to Sidi Bashr and then placed onto Lines of Communication at Gaza.

27 May 1918 : Moved to France, landing Marseilles.

From CWGC

Marseilles was the Base of the Indian troops in France during the 1914-18 war; and throughout the War the Royal Navy, the Merchant Navy, British troops and Labour units worked in the port or passed through it. Four of the town cemeteries were used, in the main, for the burial of officers and men of the Commonwealth forces who died at Marseilles. At ST. PIERRE CEMETERY, on the East side of the town, the bodies of Hindu soldiers and labourers were cremated in 1914-16. LE CANET OLD CEMETERY and LE CANET NEW CEMETERY, on the North side, were in 1917-19 the places of burial of Indian soldiers and Indian, Egyptian and Chinese labourers. MAZARGUES CEMETERY, on the South-East side, was used less in the War; but before the Armistice an Extension was made, to which were removed, a little later, the bodies or ashes from the four Town cemeteries and from PORT ST. LOUIS-DU-RHONE COMMUNAL CEMETERY. There are now 1,487, 1914-18 and 267, 1939-45 war casualties commemorated in this site. The cemetery covers an of 9,021 square metres

Probably died on a hospital ship outward from Egypt. Many of these troops had severe malaria and blackwater fever whilst in East Africa, deaths after leaveing theatre are not uncommon.

Roop

[Staffsyeoman]

There is some useful material on the machine gunners of 2/LNL (who became an ad hoc MGC company) in 'Tip and Run' by Edward Paice.

[KONDOA]

Thanks Phil, in the intervening years I have filled the gap in my knolwedge though.

Roop

[haworthnick]

Thankyou for that.

I had not considered the possiblity of them being on a hospital ship, but I was confused why it has "Lost at sea" as the cause of death on SDGW

Nick

[bushfighter]

Nick

Notes that I have obtained from the CWGC state that the men were lost in H.M.T. Transylvania on 4 May 1917.

Nine men are commemorated on the Savona Memorial, Italy and three men are buried in Savona Town Cemetery, Italy.

Harry

[haworthnick]

Thankyou for that, I'll look into it in more detail when I get chance.

Nick