AdamMills97 Posted 27 March , 2017 Share Posted 27 March , 2017 Hello, Is there any written or photographic evidence of the equipment or tools which accompanied the Lewis Machine Gun from 1915-18 which can be confirmed. You see a lot of things floating about such as protective jackets and muzzle protectors, slings and the like but I am yet to see any evidence showing me any of this in use. Regards, Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 27 March , 2017 Share Posted 27 March , 2017 Hi Adam, don't know if this is what your looking for, slind attachment and the carrying handle Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 28 March , 2017 Share Posted 28 March , 2017 Carry handle was post WW1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 28 March , 2017 Share Posted 28 March , 2017 Been thinking, the oil bottle fitted in the stock, come out later than 1914, not sure now if it was in 1917? Gerwyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 29 March , 2017 Share Posted 29 March , 2017 On 3/27/2017 at 15:36, AdamMills97 said: muzzle protectors, slings This was more-or-less answered in one of your earlier queries, yet the lack of acknowledgement suggests you didn't revisit it. 13 hours ago, pioneecorps said: the oil bottle fitted in the stock, come out later than 1914, not sure now if it was in 1917? Cover introduced LoCs June 1916. Oil bottle introduced LoCs July 31st 1916. Sling swivel introduced LoCs July 31st 1916. Prior to the introduction of a dedicated sling, SMLE slings joined together were used. Dedicated Lewis sling introduced LoCs September 25th 1916. Carrying handle introduced LoCs October 1st 1920. Although LoCs sometimes take time to catch up with real life introductions, there is no evidence whatsoever (to date) of this being used in the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pioneecorps Posted 29 March , 2017 Share Posted 29 March , 2017 (edited) Hello Grovetown Thank for your information, I only have the butt with the oil bottle, it was in a bad state when I had it given, I did a bit of TLC on it, and it now looks good, one problem it had, someone had forced a washer into where the oil brush went, damaging the thread, I could not find out what size thread it was, so I used a tip of a dart, and recut it, then it was finding a replacement oil brush, with no luck until I joined a American Lewis Gun forum, and was told you could use the one from a Vickers Machine gun, the only difference being, the Vickers made with a plastic? stem, the original was in metal Gerwyn Edited 29 March , 2017 by pioneecorps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 29 March , 2017 Share Posted 29 March , 2017 On 27/03/2017 at 15:36, AdamMills97 said: Hello, Is there any written or photographic evidence of the equipment or tools which accompanied the Lewis Machine Gun from 1915-18 which can be confirmed. You see a lot of things floating about such as protective jackets and muzzle protectors, slings and the like but I am yet to see any evidence showing me any of this in use. Regards, Adam I'm not sure what you mean by 'protective jacket' but that sounds like a reenactor fantasy item. There are many examples of original items out there. There are photographs of many of these items in use but they have not been widely published. Careful study of period images will often show small details. Here are some that I have either seen or owned: A provisional list of tools and spare parts was first issued in 1915, it was modified several times throughout the war and was updated in the various editions of the Handbook for the weapon. Some of these will no doubt be available online somewhere. A leather wallet for the Lewis small parts, tools and spares was first issued in early 1915. This item is very similar to the one issued for the Vickers Gun. A Spares and Tools Bag was first issued LOC 4741, 11th May 1915, with internal partitions for oil bottles spares tins etc. Initially made of leather, these were later replaced by a larger canvas version notified on 22nd November 1916. The leather bags are very rare now. I sold mine a couple of years or so back but I have photos of it somewhere. Slings were issued, authorised by GRO 1967 of 25th November 1916. LOC 17893, 60" in length x 2" wide, lined at one end with woven asbestos webbing. I have had two examples one dated 1916, the other 1917. A canvas trench bag for the Lewis Gun was authorised by GRO 1291, dated 2nd December 1915. A similar bag was issued for the Vickers Gun. I had one dated 1918. The Action Cover was first announced by GRO 1608 of 30th May 1916 though there is an earlier reference to these in November 1915, LOC 17740. A Breech Cover for the Hotchkiss was authorised on August 18th 1916 by GRO 1746. I had a Lewis Gun action cover made by Hampton & Sons and dated 1917. I loaned the original item to Steve Kiddle of Pegasus Militaria who produced some fairly good replicas. Heat resistant khaki Paint was issued for Lewis Gun casings authorised by GRO 1339 of 27th December 1915. The name of this paint escapes me for the moment but it was referred to by its trade name. A canvas muzzle cover was introduced by LOC 20497, Christmas Day 1917, and is described as follows 'Covers, Muzzle, Lewis Gun, Cyclists' The same LOC mentions 'Covers, Action, Lewis Gun, Cyclists' The action cover differs from the earlier pattern only in the provision of leather straps to attach to the top bar of a bicycle. I've only seen these in a unit photograph but they do exist. A short 'Bantam' butt, 1" shorter than the standard type was introduced in March 1916 LOC 17713. Steel Boxes for storage of magazines introduced on 27th November 1915, LOC 17739 along with the canvas bucket 'Carrier, Magazine Lewis .303' Oil Bottle Butt, Normal and Short, LOC 17997, 31st July 1916. The same LOC introduced the front and rear sling swivels. Luminous Sights Mk1, Front and Rear, LOC 18086, 30th September 1916. Webbing Magazine Pouches and the associated Braces were introduced by LOC 18892 of 28th May 1917. The modified pouches, most of the surviving ones are of this type even if wartime dated, date from post April 1920. A spare return spring in a circular tin storage box was introduced on 27th June 1917 by LOC 20675. I've had several of these. They go in the spares bag. Carrier Kit Lewis, Spare Barrel Carrier and Magazine Carrier for Bicycles introduced by LOC 21023, late 1917. Obsolete by 1921. Anti Aircraft Mounts, Sights Carrying Handles etc were all very late war developments and were not issued until well post war. Most were declared obsolete soon after. Butt Marking Discs are a post war modification introduced by LOC 23498. circa 1920 The 'Handle, Carrying, Lewis .303in MG Mk1' first mentioned in 1920 was introduced by LOC A956 of June 1925. For quite a period of its existence it is marked as a Naval store. So quite a lot of items were issued for use with the Lewis and documented during WW1 and that's just scratching the surface. There are many dozens of other modifications both to the guns and the accessories. There were also hand carts and towing ropes, wagons and limbers etc. There are several well known photos of the action covers in use. Here's one, 8th Battalion, Liverpool Regiment (57th Division, XI Corps) entering Lille, 18 October 1918. The soldier carrying the Lewis gun is Private Arthur John O'Hare I don't have a higher resolution version to hand to confirm but it appears the oil brush has been lost by Private O'Hare! Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grovetown Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 Quality as ever TM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamMills97 Posted 30 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2017 On 3/29/2017 at 08:59, Grovetown said: This was more-or-less answered in one of your earlier queries, yet the lack of acknowledgement suggests you didn't revisit it. Cover introduced LoCs June 1916. Oil bottle introduced LoCs July 31st 1916. Sling swivel introduced LoCs July 31st 1916. Prior to the introduction of a dedicated sling, SMLE slings joined together were used. Dedicated Lewis sling introduced LoCs September 25th 1916. Carrying handle introduced LoCs October 1st 1920. Although LoCs sometimes take time to catch up with real life introductions, there is no evidence whatsoever (to date) of this being used in the war. Hello, Sorry if it seemed that i had not acknowleged this information in a previous post but I can safely say that it was of great interest and I was not aware of so much information on such a small part of kit. Also, thank you for the reply to this post, the example of slings was just one of many in a general idea of the type of equipment I have interest in. Regards,~ Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamMills97 Posted 30 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 30 March , 2017 20 hours ago, tocemma said: I'm not sure what you mean by 'protective jacket' but that sounds like a reenactor fantasy item. There are many examples of original items out there. There are photographs of many of these items in use but they have not been widely published. Careful study of period images will often show small details. Here are some that I have either seen or owned: A provisional list of tools and spare parts was first issued in 1915, it was modified several times throughout the war and was updated in the various editions of the Handbook for the weapon. Some of these will no doubt be available online somewhere. A leather wallet for the Lewis small parts, tools and spares was first issued in early 1915. This item is very similar to the one issued for the Vickers Gun. A Spares and Tools Bag was first issued LOC 4741, 11th May 1915, with internal partitions for oil bottles spares tins etc. Initially made of leather, these were later replaced by a larger canvas version notified on 22nd November 1916. The leather bags are very rare now. I sold mine a couple of years or so back but I have photos of it somewhere. Slings were issued, authorised by GRO 1967 of 25th November 1916. LOC 17893, 60" in length x 2" wide, lined at one end with woven asbestos webbing. I have had two examples one dated 1916, the other 1917. A canvas trench bag for the Lewis Gun was authorised by GRO 1291, dated 2nd December 1915. A similar bag was issued for the Vickers Gun. I had one dated 1918. The Action Cover was first announced by GRO 1608 of 30th May 1916 though there is an earlier reference to these in November 1915, LOC 17740. A Breech Cover for the Hotchkiss was authorised on August 18th 1916 by GRO 1746. I had a Lewis Gun action cover made by Hampton & Sons and dated 1917. I loaned the original item to Steve Kiddle of Pegasus Militaria who produced some fairly good replicas. Heat resistant khaki Paint was issued for Lewis Gun casings authorised by GRO 1339 of 27th December 1915. The name of this paint escapes me for the moment but it was referred to by its trade name. A canvas muzzle cover was introduced by LOC 20497, Christmas Day 1917, and is described as follows 'Covers, Muzzle, Lewis Gun, Cyclists' The same LOC mentions 'Covers, Action, Lewis Gun, Cyclists' The action cover differs from the earlier pattern only in the provision of leather straps to attach to the top bar of a bicycle. I've only seen these in a unit photograph but they do exist. A short 'Bantam' butt, 1" shorter than the standard type was introduced in March 1916 LOC 17713. Steel Boxes for storage of magazines introduced on 27th November 1915, LOC 17739 along with the canvas bucket 'Carrier, Magazine Lewis .303' Oil Bottle Butt, Normal and Short, LOC 17997, 31st July 1916. The same LOC introduced the front and rear sling swivels. Luminous Sights Mk1, Front and Rear, LOC 18086, 30th September 1916. Webbing Magazine Pouches and the associated Braces were introduced by LOC 18892 of 28th May 1917. The modified pouches, most of the surviving ones are of this type even if wartime dated, date from post April 1920. A spare return spring in a circular tin storage box was introduced on 27th June 1917 by LOC 20675. I've had several of these. They go in the spares bag. Carrier Kit Lewis, Spare Barrel Carrier and Magazine Carrier for Bicycles introduced by LOC 21023, late 1917. Obsolete by 1921. Anti Aircraft Mounts, Sights Carrying Handles etc were all very late war developments and were not issued until well post war. Most were declared obsolete soon after. Butt Marking Discs are a post war modification introduced by LOC 23498. circa 1920 The 'Handle, Carrying, Lewis .303in MG Mk1' first mentioned in 1920 was introduced by LOC A956 of June 1925. For quite a period of its existence it is marked as a Naval store. So quite a lot of items were issued for use with the Lewis and documented during WW1 and that's just scratching the surface. There are many dozens of other modifications both to the guns and the accessories. There were also hand carts and towing ropes, wagons and limbers etc. There are several well known photos of the action covers in use. Here's one, 8th Battalion, Liverpool Regiment (57th Division, XI Corps) entering Lille, 18 October 1918. The soldier carrying the Lewis gun is Private Arthur John O'Hare I don't have a higher resolution version to hand to confirm but it appears the oil brush has been lost by Private O'Hare! Regards Tocemma Hello, Sorry if the term 'protective jacket' came across as naive but I say this as an educated man that it was an item I was unaware of that I have only seen reproductions of or WW2 variants and was honestly the best way to describe it. Following that, the amount of content that you gave me in this post was beyond a great deal of use to me in terms of my research and studies on the weapon and its accompaniments. The thought of dozens of variants of equipment made for one weapon is an interesting thought and it just goes to show how much one weapon was relied on so much. The image you have attached shows a great deal of detail in concern to the variety of kit this chap had. my better judgement would also say that it does appear that the oil brush has been lost or removed. Thanks for all your information, Adam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 30 March , 2017 Share Posted 30 March , 2017 Adam, I was trying to work out what you were referring to. I've seen some very odd items over the years that have been invented by various reenactors and dealers etc. I think you might be thinking of the Bren valise which is often sold as being for the Lewis. There are quite a few of those around WW2 and Post WW2 dated. Is this the one you mean? If so it's actually for the Bren gun. This is a modified version of the original Bren valise from the late 1930s. Made up until the mid 50s judging by the dates on the ones I've seen. What I listed is only a small selection from the LOCs regarding the Lewis. There are several pages on the changes to the construction of the magazines for example. But it's a start. Regards Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Thorne Posted 31 March , 2017 Share Posted 31 March , 2017 By my count I have 248 LoC entries for the Lewis and the bits and bobs that went with it. I'd be surprised if there weren't more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins2 Posted 7 May , 2017 Share Posted 7 May , 2017 one on display Calgary Military museum regards Bob R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tanks3 Posted 2 November , 2019 Share Posted 2 November , 2019 (edited) Not sure if tocemma is about but I had this request from a friend which I hope he or some other forum pal might be able to answer: "You're a member of the Great War Forum aren't you? Could you possibly contact a member called tocemma on my behalf? He (or she) really seems to know their stuff and in March 2017 they were talking about accessories for the Lewis Gun. They mentioned a leather spares and tools bag which was the forerunner to the canvas and leather one that you see occasionally. They said that they had sold theirs, but would post some photos of the bag, however I only have limited access to the forum and can't see if the photos were added. I can't find any other mention of a leather bag anywhere, so if you got a moment and felt charitable, could you ask them if they would mind letting you have a photo? It seems like a real rarity, so I'm sure you'd be as interested to see the bag as I am." Any help gratefully received particularly as regards a photo Tanks3 Edited 2 November , 2019 by tanks3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
battle of loos Posted 4 November , 2019 Share Posted 4 November , 2019 good morning, here are 3 elements of the lewis gun found on the ground : regards michel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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