German cemeteries on the Western Front

[suesalter1]

I was wondering where the vast numbers of German dead were buried. I know there are two large cemeteries in Belgium (Langemark) and France (Fricourt), but surely that can't be all. Where the poor souls just buried in mass graves?

 

Sue.

[cullbaggie]

sue 3 postings below in the cemetries section is a large set of postings about German cemeteries in France - might help you

 

3 off the to of my head that i have visited are

Maissemy

Neuville - st - Vaast

Vladslo

[AOK4]

There are dozens of German cemeteries in Belgium and France still, so no, they are not all buried in mass gravesl.

 

Jan

Edited 25 March , 2017 by AOK4

[Dragon]

There are (I think) 38 German military burial places from the Great War in Alsace and Lorraine. They range in size from about 11500 graves (Thiaucourt) to around 100 graves (Sarrebourg). These are not exact numbers but the total is I think 768000. Some of these share a graveyard with French or other nationalities' casualties, some of them share space with civil burials. Some of them have been taken to larger cemeteries from their original graves in the battlefield cemeteries which have now been abandoned but you can still find in the Vosges.

 

There are some ossuaries but as far as possible many men have named headstones.

 

I always make a point of visiting German cemeteries in the Vosges and Alsace, and I often take photos of individuals' graves for people. So as others have said, the German dead are not all in mass graves.

 

Gwyn

[mva]

Unfortunately, the Volksbund website is not as well organized as the one of the CWGC.

As far as Picardy is concerned : The German soldiers are in many cemeteries here in the Somme, next to where I live : Andechy, Roye, Montdidier (all less than 15 km away)

here : http://www.picardie1418.com/fr/decouvrir/cimetieres-militaires-somme.php

you find all milit. cemeteries in the Somme, the little flag will tell you which nationality

in the Aisne : http://www.picardie1418.com/fr/decouvrir/cimetieres-militaires-aisne.php

in the Oise : http://www.picardie1418.com/fr/decouvrir/cimetieres-militaires-oise.php

If you need more infos, feel free to contact me !

kind regards from the Somme, martine

[chaz]

ACHIET-LE-GRAND GERMAN CEMETERY, on the road to Bihucourt, in which one soldier from the United Kingdom was buried by the Germans, and five by their comrades in August, 1918.
ACHIET-LE-PETIT COMMUNAL CEMETERY and the GERMAN EXTENSION on the East of it. The former contained the graves of three soldiers from the United Kingdom and one from New Zealand, buried by the Germans. The latter was begun by the Germans, carried on by the 1st Bedfords and other units in August, 1918, and completed after the Armistice by the concentration to it of 360 German Graves; it contained, in all, the graves of 50 soldiers from the United Kingdom, 39 from New Zealand and 1,147 German.

 

these two we see when passing, a stark contrast to the well kept and gardened CWGC cemeteries, basically a grass field with crosses growing. often there are 4 in a grave on the arms of the cross there is a name on each .

[AOK4]

5 hours ago, chaz said:

these two we see when passing, a stark contrast to the well kept and gardened CWGC cemeteries, basically a grass field with crosses growing. often there are 4 in a grave on the arms of the cross there is a name on each .

 

Correction: there are not 4 Germans in a grave, only 4 names on a cross. the same applies for other cemeteries were usually more than one name is on a grave stone or cross. Most Germans are buried individually. (there are more than one name on each cross or stone to save on costs)

 

Jan

[Old Tom]

I have read, can't remember where, that some time after the war many German cemeteries were cleared and concentrated, e.g. Langemark. I have also understood that the presentation of cemeteries was influenced by the concept that the British preferred the appearance of country churchyard or urban park while the German preference was for a forest. 

[mva]

Here are some pictures I took this morning in Montdidier, cimetière de l'égalité :

https://somme18.com/egalite/

this is the only one I know here where 1/ the military cemetery is next to the 'normal' one, 2/ the German & French cemeteries are next to each other . In two pictures, you see a wreath : on one side, two names, on the other side, two other names.

regards from the Somme, martine

[Dragon]

The cemetery in Munster, Alsace is a combined cemetery:  French graves in foreground, German to the right, British (WW2) near the French flag, civil cemetery behind me. More

 

 

Colmar also has French and German burials.

 

Gwyn

 

Edited 26 March , 2017 by Dragon
left/right correction

[Hedley Malloch]

It's sometimes asked why there are so few on the Somme; two large concentrations and few minor ones, but nothing more.  I have heard that a third concentration was planned to be built at Miraumont for the German casualties of the northern Somme. The Volksbund did not have the resources to build them all at once, so it gathered the bodies for the Miraumont cemetery and stored them in the quarry next to the station.  The quarry is still there today.  There were some 40,000 of them.  They were covered in tarpaulin and left until the Volksbund had the resources to return.

 

When they came back in the late 20s, all the bodies had disappeared.  There was nothing left to bury.  I understand that there were not many sales of bone-meal top dressing fertilisers made to farmers around Miraumont in the 20s.

[mva]

46 minutes ago, Dragon said:

The cemetery in Munster, Alsace is a combined cemetery:  French graves in foreground, German to the left, British (WW2) near the French flag civil cemetery behind me. More

 

 

Colmar also has French and German burials.

 

Gwyn

 

interesting ! merci

[mva]

2 hours ago, Hedley Malloch said:

It's sometimes asked why there are so few on the Somme; two large concentrations and few minor ones, but nothing more. (...)

 

which cemeteries do you mean ? what are your sources ?

Edited 26 March , 2017 by mva
quote&my text not separate, 2nd question

[AOK4]

1 hour ago, Hedley Malloch said:

It's sometimes asked why there are so few on the Somme; two large concentrations and few minor ones, but nothing more.  I have heard that a third concentration was planned to be built at Miraumont for the German casualties of the northern Somme. The Volksbund did not have the resources to build them all at once, so it gathered the bodies for the Miraumont cemetery and stored them in the quarry next to the station.  The quarry is still there today.  There were some 40,000 of them.  They were covered in tarpaulin and left until the Volksbund had the resources to return.

 

When they came back in the late 20s, all the bodies had disappeared.  There was nothing left to bury.  I understand that there were not many sales of bone-meal top dressing fertilisers made to farmers around Miraumont in the 20s.

 

I'm sorry but that story is nonsense in my opinion. It was the French who were responsible for the German burials from 1918 onwards. The Volksbund only got involved after like 1925 and at that point only to help to put the cemeteries in a decent shape (by making funds available for monuments and plants). If remains of 40,000 soldiers would have been lost in this way, it would have caused a huge uproar about which there should be something in the press of that time. There is no evidence at all of that.

 

There are way more than two German cemeteries on or near the Somme battlefields: Fricourt, Rancourt, Maissemy, Achiet-le-Petit, Villers-au-Flos, Vermandovillers, just to name some.

 

Jan

[mva]

Jan, I totally agree with you ! Many soldiers, Commonwealth too, were not found after ww1 (see 1st picture here : https://somme18.com/et-apres/) : but 40 thousand lost is impossible, for the reasons you give.

Kind regards from the Somme, martine

[charlie2]

According to the VDK there are 192 cemeteries in France containing German soldiers from the Great War.  461000 are buried in individual graves and 294000 in communal graves.

 

In Belgium there are 106 cemeteries containing 134000 German dead, numbers for individual/communal graves are not given. 

 

Charlie

[AliceF]

Did this list some time ago, based on the information given by the VDK in their text on individual cemeteries. Probably posted it already somewhere.

It is the number of burials in German cemeteries in France. 

I am aware that figures not necessarily always add up, but this can give a rough idea.

 

There are about 7000 German soldiers buried in British cemeteries - in France.

 

Christine

P.S. There is also a  VDK publication on cemeteries in France, do not find it at the moment at their website.

German cemeteries in France.pdf

[rhos]

Here is some photos I took last May at Neuville st Vaast. Each cross representing four soldiers buried. Crosses as far as the eye could see. Peter.

 

PS.   Bone meal fertiliser! Surely not

[Svenja]

Hi 

 

Just have a look on the VDK Website and you will find the histories of all military cemeteries where German soldiers are buried in France and other countries.

 

http://www.volksbund.de/kriegsgraeberstaetten.html

 

There is often mentionned from which battles, regiments or military hospitals the soldiers were buried on this cemetery or from which other cemeteries they were reburied there.

 

By the way my great-granduncle, who died near Montauban in 1915, is buried on Fricourt cemetery and I visited his grave and took photos of this cemetery.

 

Regards

Svenja

Edited 26 March , 2017 by Svenja

[Hedley Malloch]

On 26/03/2017 at 19:19, AOK4 said:

 

I'm sorry but that story is nonsense in my opinion. It was the French who were responsible for the German burials from 1918 onwards. The Volksbund only got involved after like 1925 and at that point only to help to put the cemeteries in a decent shape (by making funds available for monuments and plants). If remains of 40,000 soldiers would have been lost in this way, it would have caused a huge uproar about which there should be something in the press of that time. There is no evidence at all of that.

 

There are way more than two German cemeteries on or near the Somme battlefields: Fricourt, Rancourt, Maissemy, Achiet-le-Petit, Villers-au-Flos, Vermandovillers, just to name some.

 

Jan

 

One source for the story is Gavin Stamp 'The Memorial to the Missing of the the Somme', Profile Books, London, 2007, pp.98-99  He writes, 'There were, of course, very many more German casualties on the Somme, but such was the hatred produced by the war, the French apparently destroyed thousands of bodies dumped in a quarry at Miraumont.'

 

Anyone who is familiar with the history of the occupation of northern France between during the war would not be surprised at this reaction on the part of the French.  There would have been no uproar.

[AOK4]

4 minutes ago, Hedley Malloch said:

 

One source for the story is Gavin Stamp 'The Memorial to the Missing of the the Somme', Profile Books, London, 2007, pp.98-99  He writes, 'There were, of course, very many more German casualties on the Somme, but such was the hatred produced by the war, the French apparently destroyed thousands of bodies dumped in a quarry at Miraumont.'

 

Anyone who is familiar with the history of the occupation of northern France between during the war would not be surprised at this reaction on the part of the French.  There would have been no uproar.

 

The Germans would definitely have known about this and would have strongly protested as it would have been a breach of the Versailles Treaty. There is no evidence at all of this.

The French btw gathered the German dead just as they did their own (often burying them together as well in adjoining cemeteries which were created after the war). Unless someone would come up with any proof (from contemporary sources), I can't believe it.

 

PS: I have gone through thousands of pages of sources about German cemeteries and I am quite sure I would have read about this if the rumour would have been raised at that time.

[healdav]

On 25/03/2017 at 20:35, mva said:

Unfortunately, the Volksbund website is not as well organized as the one of the CWGC.

 

As I understand it, the Volksbund is pretty much a charity, not a national organisation.

[mva]

8 hours ago, healdav said:

As I understand it, the Volksbund is pretty much a charity, not a national organisation.

yes, things are different if you are on the 'wrong' or 'right' side

[phil andrade]

Does anyone have any information about the number of unrecovered German dead ?

 

I ask this because I have seen an estimate that, while 134,000 German soldiers form 1914-18 are buried in military cemeteries in Belgium, there are the best part of another 100,000 who have not been so interred : the figure of 220,000 being cited as the actual number of Germans who died in Belgium.

 

Would there have been greater hostility to Germany in Belgium then there was in France ?

 

Bearing in mind that one quarter of all British Empire dead in France and Flanders have never been recovered - let alone identified - is it a legitimate assumption that the proportion of " lost' German bodies would be significantly greater ?

 

The figures cited for Belgium certainly suggest so.

 

Phil

[AOK4]

Hello,

 

First we have to agree upon the number 220,000 German dead in Belgium. Do you have a breakdown of this number into battles etc?

 

As I mentioned elsewhere, over 10,000 (I would say possibly up to 15,000 and even more) are buried in Northern France as this was along their evacuation lines from the Wytschaete Salient. And a few thousand may have been repatriated.

 

Jan