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Beselare

Riflemans Alley & Poker Street

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Beselare

I am trying to piece together the moment when Pte. Geoffrey Lintott, 6th Battn., The Queens, Royal West Surrey Regiment received wounds which later necessitated the amputation of an arm and a leg on 27th April 1916.  I have the war diary for April 1916 and there are various locations mentioned.  I have found Saville Row and New Cut, but the location of Riflemans Alley and Poker Street do not feature on the N&MP disc nor on Linesman, nor can I find any reference on the internet.  They have to be close to Saville Row.  Has anyone done any research on that area and found these two trenches?  If there is someone, I would very much appreciate having the trench co-ordinates.

 

Bob

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barkalotloudly

according to "Rats Alley"

  Poker street.....36CNW3 LOOSMAP REFERENCE G4D

 Riflemans alley not listed  listed BUT there is a Rifleman`s avenue listed  36SW1   Aubers reference N7D 13B 14A

 also      Rifle alley......51B NW4 Fampoux I 31 D 

 

hope this helps  

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Beselare

Many thanks for that information.  I know Poker Street is somewhere in G4D but where?  The Aubers map reference is too far north for this particular action.

 

Bob

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EDWARD1

There is a Riflemans Redoubt aprox 500yds East of New Cut at 36cNW1  A 9a 8.0 5.0

Eddie

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MBrockway

I've located RIFLEMAN'S ALLEY by some devious deductive reasoning.  It was a communication trench reaching the March 1916 front line at the mine craters roughly halfway between the Hulluch Quarries and the Hohenzollern Redoubt.

 

The evidence? .....

 

37 Bde War Diary - Schedule of Reliefs - 26th March 1916

Quote

6th R.West Kent Regt.
Holds from Southern End of SWINBURN LOOP - RIFLEMAN'S ALLEY with 3 Coys.
1 Company in OLD GERMAN LINE.
Bn. H.Q. in OLD GERMAN LINE (1)

Ancestry link:  https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_1858_0-00294

 

6/RWK War Diary 27th March 1916

Quote

Battalion relieved 7th Royal Sussex Regt in the trenches - being the left battalion of the right brigade - 6th Queens Regt on our right.  Battalion held position opposite the Quarries from G.12.c.0.7 to G.5.d.0.1 (36C N.W. ed 6), C Coy on Right, A Coy in centre (Hairpin) B Coy on left, D Coy in support in Old German Line.  Battn. H.Q. Junction of O.G.l and Breslau Avenue.

 

Ancestry link: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/interactive/60779/43112_1861_0-00325

 

S end of SWINBURN LOOP is definitely at 36C.G.12.c.0.7.  Also spelt SWINBOURN and SWINBURNE.

 

Ergo RIFLEMAN'S ALLEY is at 36C.G.5.d.0.1.  Or rather this is its north-western [Edit: Wrong!] north-eastern end where it meets the March front line trench.

 

I have a trench map overlay, which shows POKER STREET and SAVILE/SAVILLE ROW in G.4.d, but I have to process it to get it small enough to post - it'll be later today.

 

NEW CUT was the March front line immediatley right (east) of SWINBURN LOOP in G.12.c, back down nearer the Hulluch Quarries.

 

I have another trench overlay that shows it well - later today :thumbsup:

 

Mark

 

 

 

Edited by MBrockway
Getting my NW and NE wires crossed!

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MBrockway
3 hours ago, MBrockway said:

NEW CUT was the March front line immediatley right (east) of SWINBURN LOOP in G.12.c, back down nearer the Hulluch Quarries.

 

 

I should add this is a different NEW CUT from the one near Givenchy that Eddie mentions higher up.

 

KRRC were in residence there too, so the Rifleman's Redoubt up there is probably another KRR geographic legacy - the regiment liked to make its mark :thumbsup:

Edited by MBrockway

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Beselare

Mark - I thought I was fairly good on research projects but it looks like I've met my master!  Many thanks and I look forward to seeing the maps

 

Bob

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MBrockway

It's possible that Rifleman's Alley may be named in connection with 1/KRRC's attack on the Hulluch Quarries as part of "Carter's Force" in Sep 1915 at the Battle of Loos.  Hence my interest.  Nothing conclusive found yet, but I have at least now located the war diary for Carter's Brigade, which was a temporary composite brigade made under command of 7th Division for the battle and that is a definite step forward on several of my KRR projects :thumbsup:

 

This overlay map shows SAVILE ROW and POKER STREET in Suare G.4.d.  Map is dated 24 Oct 1915, so additional trenches & mine craters would have appeared by Apr 1916 and their ownership may have been different by then too!

 

The Hohenzollern Redoubt is labelled with the words faintly visible around the word "trench" of  GUILDFORD TRENCH in G.4.a-b.

Loos - Hohenzollern Redoubt - 1915-10-24.jpg

With the trench map grid squares traced onto it, it's probably clear enough for you to be able to geo-reference onto a real trench map.

 

Frustratingly, the NE end of RIFLEMAN'S ALLEY is just off the bottom right corner in G.5.d just below the faint '12'

 

This next overlay shows NEW CUT and SWINBURN LOOP a little to the east opposite the Hulluch Quarries.  It's dated 02 Apr 1916, so should be good for your period of interest.  Unfortunately it's not as well geo-referenced - no trench "grid" lines and no north arrow, nor is it oriented top to north :(.

 

I've done my best to rotate it so you can match it against a pukka trench map.  I've included the Hulluch Road/Auchy road crossroads in the lower right quadrant as a useful landmark and the trench map reference for the "X" in pencil immediately left of "'C' Coy" is 36C.G.12.c.31.73 - it's the S end of SWINBURN LOOP mentioned in the war diary above.  Newport and Brecon Saps are also good landmarks.

 

Loos - Hulluch 1916-04-02 01 (2).jpg

 

Hope they help!

 

Mark

 

 

Edited by MBrockway

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MBrockway

Incidentally the company dispositions marked on the 02 Apr 1916 Hulluch Quarries overlay (the rotated one) are those of 6/Queens - the battalion you are investigating :)

 

'A' Coy were in touch to the left right of 'B' Coy and had the right of the battalion sector stretching all the way down to where the front line met the Hulluch Road.  The 'X' in pencil is their left (north) boundary, but the 'X' for their right (south) boundary got chopped.  I'm afraid I cut just too much off the right margin for you!  Let me know if you need to see it.

 

See the 02 Apr 1916 entry here:

http://www.queensroyalsurreys.org.uk/war_diaries/local/1_6Bn_Queens/1_6Bn_Queens_1916/1_6Bn_Queens_1916_04.shtml

 

Edited by MBrockway

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Beselare

Hello Mark

 

Words fail me.  Without your superb help I would certainly be in the dark.  There is even a bonus on one of the maps and that is the location of German Lookout Crater (mentioned in the diary).  I hadn't mentioned that as I didn't think there would be any chance of finding it.

 

The next time you are in the Ypres area, please send me an e-mail.  I feel I owe you a few Belgian beers.

 

Bob

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