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Remembered Today:

Hypo gas helmet, not dripped in chemicals


bkristof

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Hi what do you think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...=ADME:B:EF:US:1

To me it looks like a very good old repro.

The ones i ever saw (in musea) and the bits i have have all tanned, britle screens because of age. And a lost of them were stamped: HYPO

This one looks super good! ?

+ Not dripped, so not sticky, like they should be...

The rubber wallets are made in repro.

The carier can be real...

Who dares to gamble on it? Not me. To risky.

A good repro cost 60$ a real one ??? 300- 400 $ ???

Who can proof it? Not me, you need to see the item for real...

Please tell me, should you take the risk???

greets,

kristof

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oups, my fault... resolved now

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Does look very interesting, it is surprising what still turns up but this seems a little too complete and un-worn to be true...

Having said that the guy appears to know his stuff and has a copy of Delhomme (very scarce) so he has a certain interest.

Rather poor but original masks alone have made a few hundred £'s each when I have seen them.

IIRC from a visit a few weeks ago there was a good example round the corner from you in the Zonnebeke museum?

It is certainly not something I would buy without handling it first!

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Kristof,

I agree with you. Without handling it would be too risky to bid. Could be real but?

Not sure what the carrier is supposed to be. It actually looks like the early carrier that came with the black veiling respirator and was used with the first issues of smoke helmets.

These were all coated on the interior with rubber and did not need a internal wallet.

The wallet is ? I have two originals and both are thin cotton coated on the inside with a thin coat of waterproofing. the one in the photo looks like a cut up Civil War reenactors gum blanket. Originals could have been made this way, but?

The helmet is?

After 80 years a sticky helmet would be the first indication of a fake. The original solution dried out/evaporated fairly fast and left a powder or a stiff cloth at best. I have several masks like this. Chances are if only treated once you would not be able to tell easily that it had been treated at all after 80 years.

As for being marked with "Hypo". This is by no means on every smoke helmet.

I have a theory "only a theory based on circumstantial evidence" that smoker Helmets only started being marked after variuos different solutions started to be introduced.

PH helmets invariably have a PH stamp and lot number. P helmets too have a P stamp. Hypo helmets were only stamped for those that were in the redipping phases.

Abbeville and Calais were set-up as a Mask repair and redip facility. It was at these facilities that the Hypo Helmets (All Helmets) were marked (PH helmets I believe were marked at the original dipping)and dated (to determine when a redip was needed). A mask was to redipped in the same solution as originally dipped-did not want to mix solutions. Redipping was done under medical supervision. 7,677,000 helmets of Hypo, P, PH and PHG went through these facilities.

Joe Sweeney

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joe,

i believe you, but strange enough the PH of the musuem is still a bit sticky and it smells... Maybe a soldier had a bad breath LOL.

But it is most the screen who doesn't please me. The pouches are also a big question indeed.

Gilles,

the Hypo in the Zonnebeke museum is a replica!

I know for sure! ;)

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the Hypo in the Zonnebeke museum is a replica!

Does not surprise me! Most of the museum ones are. Is the colour of the ebay mask correct? - looks very dark grey?

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Kristof:

But it is most the screen who doesn't please me. The pouches are also a big question indeed.

As the screen is missing on this example, as the seller points out in the description, which (despite the rest of the masks excellent condition) is still very likely, given the very unstable nature of early plastics, I don't see how it's worrying you Kristof.

Whether on not the whole mask is real or just a clever fake, well....

Giles Poilu:

As I understand it, original Hypo and PH masks can be found in a variety of colours AND materials, ranging from white/off-white and striped cotton (!) to a light blue, mid grey, and dark grey wool, manufacturers using whatever material was to hand for the high initial demand, although the grey wool seems to have become standard as time progressed.

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I think the bottom line is that a new replica can be bought for under £30, of course it will not be perfect but a spin in the time machine will fix much of that.

Some things you just cannot buy without having them in your hands, unless the provenance is totally compelling.

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And that is the biggest problem with some items on ebay.

The same with this endless discussion who is going on:

http://1914-1918.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=24698&hl=

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The mask could be real. But the risk? What is his return policy?

The attached is from an original Smoke Helmet belonging to a member of the RE Special Brigade along with the early carrier (the carries varied in detail, I have three and all are a bit different, but all are made of thin Khaki cotton with the interior lined in waterproofing). The eye pieces are made of the same material as Film. In fact the RACD records it as so and Army Ordnance Services were sent scrounging across Europe for excess film stock. It yellows with age.

Joe Sweeney

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Giles,

Like Andrew said the material can widely vary. I'm going on a limb but I believe I actual read where was an attempt to dye them drab--can't find the reference so I could be recalling false memories.

The image below is the back side of a PH. It is striped flannel. The lining is also striped flannel (Same set). Only the front piece is made of Silver Grey flannel. This was made by Debenhams and I highly suspect the flannel is pyjama flannel.

I have another P helmet where the lining is blue striped pyjama flannel and the outter shell is Grey flannel. Almost all I've examined are this way around 70%.

Joe Sweeney

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As for the inner wallet.

This photo shows an inner wallet next to a PH helmet made by H Lotery (this one is actually all Grey Flannel).

The wallet is made of thin cotton with interior waterproofing (Very thin). I've two of these and have examined a number of others. All are slightly larger than the deminsion of the PH satchel and much larger than the early carrier.

Kristof,

After 90 years they all stink.

Joe Sweeney

So bottomline who will take the risk? It just might be real.

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Hard isn't it... I don't know what the best thing would be to do.

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Interesting stuff Joe, thanks for that. I have often seen the eyepieces desribed as celluloid but I never realised this was actual photographic celluloid film? How does this compare to Mica used on German masks or French M2's (IIRC) I believe?

It does seem to me the PH hoods would appear to be one of the very easiest Great War items to recreate and age well. I am not talking about the poor copies of the later twin eyepiece models frequently encountered.

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French masks have poor quality mica. Gemran ones are very strong.

Is the mica of the Hypo almost the same as WW2 civilian respirators?

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Gee :blink:

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Incidently Kristof, who or where was the source of the Zonnebeke museum relpica - looked good to me. ;)

A guy on the forum who collects gas mask and does living history...

He is from Belgium... ;)

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