KerrieJo Posted 1 March , 2017 Share Posted 1 March , 2017 (edited) Hello, I wonder if someone could help me please? I'm trying to research my ancestry but I seem to be having a bit of a problem with two people in my family, my Grandad, Thomas Owen Boswell, who I believe served in the second world war, no idea what regiment, we think his date of birth is 21st of June 1921, I'm can't seem to find out much on my Grandad, he's no longer with us, so I cannot ask him and also his Dad Joshua Boswell, who I believe was born in 1870 and I've been told he lied about his age to join the army. I've attached a copy of his certificate, not sure if it's of any use though. He was apparently married to a Elizabeth Taylor, but the Joshua I keep finding was married to a Emma Smith, the one I did find married to an Elizabeth Taylor is locked in the 1939 census.Maybe he divorced Emma and then married Elizabeth.. no idea. I hope I've made sense, I'm not that great at explaining. Thanks in advance Kerrie Edited 2 March , 2017 by KerrieJo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 1 March , 2017 Share Posted 1 March , 2017 (edited) Hi Kerrie Welcome to the forum. A Thomas Owen Boswell was born 26. Nov, 1913 died Feb 2000, Bakewell, Derbyshire, aged 86 yrs, death cert, 17AM, 3912,Entry No.6.....could this be him?...looking Regards Barry Joshua Boswell was Pte 3/7269 and a host of other numbers, Pension Records on Ancestry lists his wife and children, Thomas Owen amongst them....checking the details...Emma Smith was his wife when he signed up. Joined York and Lancs Regt in 1894 Pte 3829........ Edited 1 March , 2017 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 1 March , 2017 Share Posted 1 March , 2017 (edited) You've found the right man - #3829 Joshua Boswell of Buxton enlisted in the Yorks & Lancs in Jan 1894 (age given as 22). Served until 1902 when he was discharged to the army reserves until 1910. Re-enlisted as #7629 with the Sherwood Foresters in Sep 1914 and served to July 1917. He wife was Emma (nee Smith) , they had 6 children by 1915 - one of them is Thomas Owen Boswell, born 12/11/13. Craig Edited 1 March , 2017 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 1 March , 2017 Share Posted 1 March , 2017 (edited) Hi again A Thomas Owen Boswell married "Willer" surname in 1941, 2nd qtr, 7b,2742, Bakewell, Derbyshire.......2nd marriage?...checking Regards Barry Ancestry transcribed it wrong should read MILLER. Edited 1 March , 2017 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 1 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2017 (edited) Thank you very much The Inspector and ss002d6252. My Grandad Thomas died in 1997, he was apparently born in June 1921 but.. no one is sure of his DOB. Joshua was also married to an Elizabeth Taylor, I'm wondering if Joshua remarried when he left the army or something because Thomas Owen is linked to Emma but Grandad's brother Leslie is linked to Elizabeth Taylor. It's making my headaches worse lol. Thanks again! Edited 1 March , 2017 by KerrieJo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 1 March , 2017 Share Posted 1 March , 2017 Quote Joshua was also married to an Elizabeth Taylor, I'm wondering if Joshua remarried when he left the army or something because Thomas Owen is linked to Emma but Grandad's brother Leslie is linked to Elizabeth Taylor. It's making my headaches worse lol. I wonder if it was an 'unofficial' marriage as there's nothing obvious in the marriage records that I can see. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 1 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2017 Grandad Thomas only married Mary Winifred Brooks, in 1940. Lived with my Uncle until he passed in 97. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 1 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 1 March , 2017 (edited) 9 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said: I wonder if it was an 'unofficial' marriage as there's nothing obvious in the marriage records that I can see. Craig Hmm, I think there's marriage cert from Joshua and Elizabeth, I'm sure it's the copy I have but I've gone and put it away and can't find it :/ Plus if I do a search on find my past in the census 1939 part an Elizabeth Boswell does come up, but obviously I can't see the file fully because it's locked, but it does give the name Joshua Boswell on there as well. Thanks for trying to help Edited 1 March , 2017 by KerrieJo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 1 March , 2017 Share Posted 1 March , 2017 (edited) Hi Kerrie Let's have another go Thomas Owen Boswell, Died 18th Jan 1997 Nottingham, aged 75 yrs. registered G67A, 6891G, Entry No.59, Born 23 June 1921, Cremated 3rd February, 1997, Nottingham. Married Mary W (Winifred) Brooks, Nottingham, 2nd qtr 1940,,7b,1207.......looking Regards Barry On Joshua Boswell's records 3/7269 it shows that 2 of the 6 children were born prior to marriage to Emma Smith on 14.12.03 at All Saints, Matlock, ie. Frederick 24.2.01 and May, 7.4.02.....Thomas Owen b.26.11.12. ???? 4 Cobden Terrace, Matlock. What info. do you have of Thomas Owen being linked to Emma? Edited 1 March , 2017 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 2 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 2 March , 2017 (edited) Thank you The Inspector Got those records on Grandad but not sure if his birth one's are correct to be honest, apparently his records were damaged when Somerset House was bombed(?) so guesses have been made on his birth and from what one of my Aunt's were telling my Mum, Grandad has his father missing from his birth cert (don't know if that's correct of course as I've not seen it), so we don't even know if he's older than stated, he could have been going on for his 80's. Problem is... the family fell out, one of my other Aunt's stole all of Grandad's papers, photos and even medals, when Grandad was on his death bed, I think they were Joshua's medals as Mum recalls burying Tom's when she was a kid lol. I don't really fancy calling this Aunt either... hence me trying to find out more through you guys I think I just want to know if the Joshua in the cert I posted is the same Joshua in the records I keep finding. The only info I have of Thomas being linked to Emma was the information on Joshua's records, that's it, do you think it's worth trying to get a copy of his birth cert or a waste of time after what one of my Aunt's said? Ahh that's interesting. so Emma was maybe with someone else before hand or they had them out of wedlock? That's why Mum's brother wouldn't have a clue about them. They both keep going on about an Arthur, apparently Grandad's brother, but they don't know too much about him and again I cannot find an Arthur linked to their family, unless it's another case of the info being locked. The date for Thomas I believe is wrong, I looked at what my ancestry read it as, they have him as Thomas Ann Boswell being born on the 26.11.1912 I think it was, but when I looked at it, it looked like Thomas Owen Boswell born on the 26.11.18, which would be closer to 1921, but the month is all wrong (not that Grandad remembered how old he was!). I've sent a copy to Mum to look at to see if she can read it any better than I can. Edit, someone from the forums kindly sent me some info and it was a lot cleaner that the info I looked at, looks like it's maybe 1913 for Thomas, but I don't think he was that old, then again, couldn't tell with him, he always looked the same from when I was a kid until he passed lol. Thanks again for trying to help, I really appreciate it, I've been trying to research the tree on and off since just before my Dad passed in 08, I have since found a lot of Dad's tree, but he was from Ireland, so I'm assuming their records were all fine, I even found pics on the net of his Grandma and Grandad. I started to research it again to take my mind off of my Uncle passing last month (Mum's brother). I'm seriously considering opening one of the locked census next week, the one with Joshua and Elizabeth, I don't know if it'll be a waste of money or not but it's worth ago. Edited 2 March , 2017 by KerrieJo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 3 March , 2017 Share Posted 3 March , 2017 (edited) Hi Kerrie Looked again at Thomas Owen on Pension records, it does look like 26.11.18,BUT not certain. The records state above the list of children "Name and address of next of kin:-wife Emma, 4 Cobden Terrace ,Matlock, Children, 1 May, 2 William, 3. Harold, 4. Thomas Owen". May was "born prior to marriage" but so was Frederick but he is not listed under next of kin! He was born first in 1901 so perhaps he is the only one with a different father and Emma is shown as a spinster on the marriage particulars below the list of children's names. Perhaps the 2 witnesses to the marriage Maud Waite and Jas? Fred? Harrison (James Frederick Harrison) may be worth searching. I would get the marriage certificate and compare the signature on the attestation forms with the cert. Regards Barry On Joshua's first set of Records his father's name is crossed out and his wife "Emma" replaces him as next of kin. I think this Joshua and your great grandfather are one and the same. Edited 3 March , 2017 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 March , 2017 Share Posted 3 March , 2017 His record definitely says 1913 The marriage witness is George Fred Harrison Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 March , 2017 Share Posted 3 March , 2017 Thomas' birth record Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 3 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2017 Thanks again guys. Could there have been such a big mistake though? Grandad thought he was born in June, not even sure of the proper date, between 21 22 and 23 lol, in 1921. However I guess if he was in the war and I was told he was also wounded, maybe he didn't remember due to that? I know I tend to forget things with my different health problems. If that is my Grandad, that means he missed out on a lot of his pension! That's interesting about Emma, thank you. The one above is for 1914? Ugh, he has a lot of dates lol. They go from 1912 to 1921 hehe, but in thinking about it, 1921 is 1912 with the numbers switched, so who knows. All I know is I'm very confused I see that says it's a 99% match too? Which site did you use to look that up please? (Unless you aren't able to say). Yeah I'll have a look for the two witnesses. Thank you again. Sorry I've only just come back on, I thought I'd get notifications to say when someone had responded, but I didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 March , 2017 Share Posted 3 March , 2017 (edited) The date in the service record (provided by the father) and that held in BMD register are from different sources so I can't see how they could all be wrong - the register date of 1914 could just be because the birth was registered in that quarter (Jan,Feb, Mar - quite common to be registered late or in to the next quarter). The date also ties in with that in post #2. Birth, Marriage and Death records can be searched for free on Freebmd. There was a man Thomas Owen Boswell born 1921 but that was in Nottingham, died 1997. Craig Edited 3 March , 2017 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 3 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2017 Thanks for that My Grandad was meant to be born June 1921, but he could never remember if he was or not and couldn't remember his age, Mum thought he was older. The problem is, when I search for him with that DOB, I cannot find a parent for him. All I know is that his dad was Joshua, married an Elizabeth Florence Taylor, of course could have been with Emma before hand, Tommy (Uncle) says they lived on Upper Eldon St in Nottingham and that he was in the army and was a war hero plus had medals, Thomas was also in the army, WW2 I believe and also received medals and Mum says he was injured also. I have 2 photos which I'll attach, one looks like my Grandad and the other we think is Joshua. Both in uniforms. Sorry about the lines, I think I need a new scanner. This one is I believe Thomas Owen (Grandad) This one is apparently Joshua Boswell (Great Grandad) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 3 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2017 (edited) Oh yes one other thing, don't know if this makes a difference but apparently Grandad's family were gypsies. Edited 3 March , 2017 by KerrieJo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 March , 2017 Share Posted 3 March , 2017 (edited) The 1913 (1914 on the register) man's mother was nee Smith. Where did your granddad die at ? Do any of the other names shown in spot #12 ring a bell ? There;s enough of them that they should if it's the right man. Craig Edited 3 March , 2017 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 3 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2017 (edited) He sadly passed in Jan 1997. Just a shame my Aunt stole all of the paperwork, medals and photos. Apparently his DOB may have been guessed because his original birth records were damaged in Somerset House *shrugs*. I've no idea if it includes birth certs or just military. Edited 3 March , 2017 by KerrieJo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 3 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2017 Been doing a bit more searching on the net as to why I'm not able to find his correct DOB, so apparently 60% of military documents were damaged and I copied this from a page, which sounds about right. " You may be looking in the wrong period: ages on censuses are often wrong, as are the ages shown on marriage certificates - especially if there is an age gap between the parties, or one or both is below the age of consent (21). Sometimes people didn't know how old they were, and ages on death certificates can be little more than guesses. Remember too that births could be registered up to 42 days afterwards without penalty, so many will be recorded in the following quarter - and they could be registered up to 365 days afterwards on payment of a fine. In my experience, where the marriage certificate shows 'of full age' it's often an indication that they were under 21! The birth was not registered at all: this is usually the least likely situation, but it did happen" So it could actually be the Thomas Owen you guys have found for me and the one I keep seeing on Joshua's records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 3 March , 2017 Share Posted 3 March , 2017 The group photo looks like it was taken in the 1920s after the claiming of Joshua's medals. He also has a vertical wound stripe on his left sleeve and four good conduct stripes (I though there were 5 but I think that the lowest one I thought I saw is a ridge in the sleeve of his tunic) - the Good Conduct stripes would denote 18 years service (possibly less in the case of exemplary service). The picture of the lone soldier appears to be a man in the Royal Artillery. I'm useless on later uniforms but I would say 1930s. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 3 March , 2017 Share Posted 3 March , 2017 Quote So it could actually be the Thomas Owen you guys have found for me and the one I keep seeing on Joshua's records. Do you know the names of any of your granddads brothers or sisters ? Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 3 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2017 Wow thanks for that Stebie9173. ss002d6252 - That's the problem I am having, because my Mum was in a home as a child she doesn't remember or know half of her relatives I feel sorry for her to be honest, she remembers the odd person and her brother's been giving her some info. So what I have sibling wise is that he definitely had a brother called Leslie G Boswell, no address sadly. Leslie was born around March 1925, from what I can gather from my research his mother is Elizabeth Taylor and he lived on Upper Eldon St, Nottingham with Joshua and Elizabeth, problem with some of the info is that it's locked in the 1939 census, I should be able to pay to unlock it next week. They also recall a Uncle called Arthur but I cannot find him, but Mum swears Grandad has sisters as well, she doesn't know names though. That's all I have on them really and that Leslie was married to Clarice Maltby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kath Posted 3 March , 2017 Share Posted 3 March , 2017 I hope this is not muddying the waters: MATLOCK MAINTENANCE CASE, HUSBAND COMMITTED TO GAOL. The adjourned case in which Joshua Boswell was summoned by his wife, Emma Boswell, of Starkholmes, Matlock, for arrears in respect of a maintenance order, again 29 October 1920 - Belper News - Belper, Derbyshire Kath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KerrieJo Posted 3 March , 2017 Author Share Posted 3 March , 2017 ooo who know with my family! Thanks for that Kath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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