Mother and Son on same Headstone

[Colm]

This grave is in the churchyard at Tillingham Essex. I was wondering how unusual it was to have Mother and Son mentioned on the same War Grave, and if anyone has any additional information. 

They are relatives of my wife but no-one in the family has any information.

 

Regards

Col

[burlington]

col

The mother's name is no different to any other 'extraneous information' on a CWGC grave marker eg a dedication to whoever.

The family of the casualty could request, and pay for, details to be included in the engraving. It would have been their choice, and the fact that an individual is so marked only reflects the families wishes.

It is of course particularly poignant that the mother died 2 days after her son. Very sad of course. She is NOT listed on the CWGC database and therefore is, with the greatest possible respect, no different to any other extraneous information on any grave marker. CWGC were merely following the family's wishes.

Martin 

[Kitty55]

There are several in East Dereham's cemetery with just mother and a soldier on and plenty with a set of parents and then their one soldiering son on them - but then it's a large cemetery.

However, I don't think there are any with such a close death date or that they were necessarily buried during the war period.

We do have a 2 year daughter and her soldiering father on the same grave stone but although they both died during the Great War it was in different places and a year apart.

In fact I think that is one of the saddest things I've come across whilst researching Dereham during the Great War - the fact that three mothers lost their toddler children within a year of loosing their soldiering husbands.

Of course there were a couple who actually lost their son either on the same day or a couple of days apart - strangly three sets of them too.

 

Not that helps you a lot.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

[johnboy]

The first that I have seen with dates so close. The soldier looks like he died in UK so might be worth trying to find circumstances and if mother was also involved?

Edited 26 February , 2017 by johnboy

[Kitty55]

Was there a Zepp Raid or anything? - a gass explosion when he was home visiting? Even a road land slid - sounds crazy but they happened everywhere mainly because people in Britain were trying to do it not only cheaply but also to save on equipment so more could be sent to the front. - it's happened in Norfolk according to the papers.

Believe me some very strange things went on during the war you just have to dig about to find them. However not only in the online sites and war records but as I found the local rag (sorry newspaper) with usually tell you more or at least give up a few more facts to work with.

[ss002d6252]

I can't see an obvious Soldiers Effects entry for him (there should be one)

EDIT:
Found it - http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/60506/42511_6129999_0091-00176?pid=332361&backurl=http://search.ancestry.co.uk/cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DCFr1375%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DUKArmyRegistersEffects%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26gsln%3Dsandford%26gsln_x%3D0%26msddy%3D1917%26MSAV%3D1%26uidh%3Dyvc%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D14%26h%3D332361%26recoff%3D4%26ml_rpos%3D15&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=CFr1375&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

Craig

Edited 26 February , 2017 by ss002d6252

[johnboy]

Just now, ss002d6252 said:

I can't see an obvious Soldiers Effects entry for him (there should be one)

Craig

I think his age was 18yrs and in training battalion in uk....if he joined battallion at 18 would he have qualified if less than 6 mnths?

[ss002d6252]

1 minute ago, johnboy said:

I think his age was 18yrs and in training battalion in uk....if he joined battallion at 18 would he have qualified if less than 6 mnths?

He wouldn't qualify but there should still be an entry - to dispose of any estate and to confirm no gratuity was due. I edited my earlier post as I managed to find the record.

Craig

Edited 26 February , 2017 by ss002d6252

[RaySearching]

Grave registration document shows his mother is interred in the same grave

Ray

[RaySearching]

Henry is commemorated on the memorial on the wall of St. Nicholas Church  HERE

 

FIND A GRAVE

 

 

Ray

[Muerrisch]

32 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Grave registration document shows his mother is interred in the same grave

Ray

 

I was wondering if everyone was missing the point that was bothering me: here we have an official-looking [and presumably kosher] CWGC headstone and grave including a civilian.  That seems most surprising to me ........ not that I either approve or disapprove, I am just startled.

 

Are there others ?

[johnboy]

According to CWGC both bodies are in the same grave....so it should be a proper CWGC headstone.

[RaySearching]

 

I think what may have happened here is that Henry and his mother Mary Ann were initially interred in a private grave 

the plot later adopted by the CWGC and a headstone erected 

[tootrock]

The additional information was included in the original headstone details. There was to have been a charge of 16s - 4d for the 56 letters involved.

 

Martin

[Colm]

Thank you all for these extremely helpful replies. Sorry about the delay in my reply, but I sent the post and then life suddenly got a bit busy.

 

All calmed down again now so I will start digesting the information you have given me and see what progress I can make into finding out more about these two deaths. And of course will let you know .

 

Thanks again

 

Col

 

 

[Phil Wood]

On 2/26/2017 at 18:43, Muerrisch said:

 

I was wondering if everyone was missing the point that was bothering me: here we have an official-looking [and presumably kosher] CWGC headstone and grave including a civilian.  That seems most surprising to me ........ not that I either approve or disapprove, I am just startled.

 

Are there others ?

 

Hundreds, perhaps thousands.  

 

Many soldiers buried in the UK were buried in a local cemetery or churchyard plot with space for 2 or 3.  Perhaps they joined a predeceased relative, perhaps their relatives joined them. The CWGC recently erected a stone in a cemetery in Newbury to commemorated a deceased soldier buried there - the family were able to add the bit at the bottom to commemorate his parents who are both in the same grave and his brother who died at Cambrai (the two brothers died 18 months apart of wounds received in the same action).

[Kitty55]

There's many a soldier in Dereham Cemetery that had been buried or even just the name entered on the family headstone - or a parents. Of course there is still the allocated area for our soldiers who have died in action.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

[RaySearching]

Just for added interest

Here is a previous thread on TWO HUSBANDS SAME GRAVE

 

Regards Ray

[Kitty55]

Yes you can find some very strange happens in the past.

For instance in the 1900 there was a woman in town who marriage a chemist - who then died and his shop was sold only for her to then marry the new chemist - not only that her brother who owned a shop across the road then hired her new husband's brother as his shop manager.

But that's what I love about researching history - all these unusual things that in those days nobody thought anything of, and yet today we find strange. Sometimes I think we are more Victorian in our attitude today than the Victorians actually were then.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty