Michael Peck Posted 21 February , 2017 Share Posted 21 February , 2017 Hi all, My Great Uncle, Pte 2441 William Henry Grocock (4th Lincolnshire) was killed, with 6 others, by shell fire on 2nd September 1915 while in the supposedly relatively safe location variously described as 'Railway Embankment Dugouts', 'Zillebeke Dugouts' or just 'Embankment Dugouts'. All are buried in Railway Dugouts Burial Ground (Transport Farm). I have (I think) most possible information about him from census to the Battalion War Diary, but my ask is if anyone is aware of a contemporary photo(s) (or sketch plan or large scale map etc) of the dugouts which would help explain the exact location and layout? I realise that this is a difficult, possibly impossible, request but would thank anyone for any assistance. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted 21 February , 2017 Share Posted 21 February , 2017 Mike - There's a McMaster map here of the Zillebeke region. http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A71296/-/collection On it is marked "Embankment dugouts", someone else will be able to tell you if it's the exact one you're after. This is just north of Hollebeke. There's another thread here which may be useful to as it mentions the areas of interest plus Paul Reed's Walking the Salient book. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mebu Posted 21 February , 2017 Share Posted 21 February , 2017 (edited) Not these, which are German. Remains of these, and of Lock Lodge, still there. The ones that you need are at Zillebeke, can't do map at present but I'm sure someone will post one soon. Peter Edited 21 February , 2017 by mebu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Peck Posted 22 February , 2017 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2017 My thanks for your interest and help. A visit to Railway Dugouts later this year may (or may not) help to locate the place, I can but hope. And by sheer coincidence, Will, I expect Paul Reed's book to arrive today! Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 22 February , 2017 Share Posted 22 February , 2017 Michael My Trench Map DVD (March 1915) has Railway Dugouts on this portion of the rail line. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 22 February , 2017 Share Posted 22 February , 2017 Here is Transport Farm marked on a later map. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger H Posted 22 February , 2017 Share Posted 22 February , 2017 Here is the rough area on Google Maps. I am not very good at doing overlays - somebody else might help. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted 22 February , 2017 Share Posted 22 February , 2017 On 21/02/2017 at 12:33, Michael Peck said: Hi all, My Great Uncle, Pte 2441 William Henry Grocock (4th Lincolnshire) was killed, with 6 others, by shell fire on 2nd September 1915 while in the supposedly relatively safe location variously described as 'Railway Embankment Dugouts', 'Zillebeke Dugouts' or just 'Embankment Dugouts'. All are buried in Railway Dugouts Burial Ground (Transport Farm). I have (I think) most possible information about him from census to the Battalion War Diary, but my ask is if anyone is aware of a contemporary photo(s) (or sketch plan or large scale map etc) of the dugouts which would help explain the exact location and layout? I realise that this is a difficult, possibly impossible, request but would thank anyone for any assistance. Mike. Here is a map corrected to 8th May 1917 showing the Railway Dugouts. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Peck Posted 22 February , 2017 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2017 Fabulous Roger, I am in your debt. Just what I was hoping for, thank you. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Peck Posted 22 February , 2017 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2017 And Howard, our mails must have crossed. Also in your debt. This forum never ceases to amaze me for the help it gives and the obscure questions it always answers! Thank you,Howard. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303man Posted 22 February , 2017 Share Posted 22 February , 2017 There were numbered and named dugouts along Zillebeke West Bund they detail number of men in each, amount of overhead cover and condition I have the details in a war diary will try and track them down. The bund in question is running from roughly the middle diagonally up to the top right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
303man Posted 22 February , 2017 Share Posted 22 February , 2017 (edited) Norfolk Regt War Diary states Dugouts in Railway Bank: Dugout 59 100 men 80 90 men 99 12 men 100 10 men 100a 18men 101 - 102 14 men ea Edited 22 February , 2017 by 303man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m0rris Posted 22 February , 2017 Share Posted 22 February , 2017 (edited) I'm very interested to see the aerial photo. If I'm right the annotation to the left of '1918' picks out Manor Halt - the spot where my great uncle was killed. You can just see the railway cross Manor Road. Edited 23 February , 2017 by m0rris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Peck Posted 23 February , 2017 Author Share Posted 23 February , 2017 Thank you 303man, both for the photo (and very revealing of the area devastation, isn't it?) and the information. Much appreciated. Mike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
17107BM Posted 23 March , 2017 Share Posted 23 March , 2017 Is this the location? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 17 May , 2021 Admin Share Posted 17 May , 2021 Hello All, I just found this thread/post and thought to bring it to the attention of @David_Blanchard as he is researching this area. Regards, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted 23 March Share Posted 23 March (edited) Quick question - how far away is the Zillebeke or Railway dugouts from the Zwarteleen Salient? I ask because that's where the remnants of 2 Bn KOYLI were pulled back to from their disastrous attack, (and relieved by the South Lancs afterwards), from Trench 41 onto the Salient on 7 May 2015. Edited 23 March by kerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 23 March Admin Share Posted 23 March 1 hour ago, kerry said: Quick question - how far away is the Zillebeke or Railway dugouts from the Zwarteleen Salient? I ask because that's where the remnants of 2 Bn KOYLI were pulled back to from their disastrous attack, (and relieved by the South Lancs afterwards), from Trench 41 onto the Salient on 7 May 2015. Not far at all Kerry. Railway dugouts grid square 21c Zillebeke grid square 22 b and d Zwarteleen grid square 29 c and d So approximately 2000 yards away; screenshot of map courtesy of National library Scotland.https://maps.nls.uk/view/101464897 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerry Posted 23 March Share Posted 23 March Bob, many thanks indeed and for the map graphic. Another piece to the ancestral jigsaw puzzle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin Bob Davies Posted 23 March Admin Share Posted 23 March 3 minutes ago, kerry said: Bob, many thanks indeed and for the map graphic. Another piece to the ancestral jigsaw puzzle Happy to help There is a long thread about the Railway Dugouts here; You might glean more from it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Blanchard Posted 24 March Share Posted 24 March Thanks, Bob, for keeping me in the loop. Dsvid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now