176 Tunnelling Company RE

[J Sewell]

My great uncle, Sapper F Morley 79709, died on 9th July 1916 and his war death certificate records thathe died at Carency. His parents were informed that he died as a result of an enemy mine explosion. He was a member of 176 Tunnelling Company RE and is buried at Hoisin Cemetery.

Is there anyone out there who can be more precise about the action in which he was involved and which led to his death.

Jim Sewell

[KONDOA]

Hi Jim,

176 Tunneling Company was one of the first such companies formed on February 17th -19th 1915.

A War Diary for this company is not apparent at the NA, however, given the early formation and it being an Army formaion (only First and Second at this date) I would suspect some records do exist and it may be worthwhile searching deeper than the online catalogue allows.

Our mother site records:-

176th Tunnelling Company Formed at Lestrem in April 1915, and moved soon after to the Neuve Chapelle area facing Bois du Biez. Moved to Givenchy in June 1915. Employed under the command of 2nd Division on operations near Cuinchy in Summer 1915. Moved to Neuville St Vaast/Vimy in April 1916, remaining there for a considerable time.

I would look at the higher War Diaries as a starter , 2nd Div is mentined here which should then allow you to work downwards or upwards depending what info is found.

Roop

[J Sewell]

Dear Roop,

Thank you for quick response. I know that 176 Coy was formed at Lestrem under Capt E M Momber and that in 1916 they were reputed to be in the Arras Sector.

My great uncle went to France in Mar 1915 as a Green Howard but by the time he was on UK leave for his wedding in Sept 1915 he had already transferred to the REs. Prior to hostilities he had worked at a coal mine in Co Durham and this presumably was the reason he is shown as 'recruited in the field' on his medal card.

He is buried in the Hoisin Cemetery (CWGC) along with other tunnellers. My problem is twofold. When did he leave Green Howards and where was he when he died.

yours

Wg Cdr J Sewell

[KONDOA]

Evening WC

I recently acquired a tunnelling company rank Service Record from the NA at Kew, it was not what I especially wanted so gave it to another forum member.

However, from this little excercise, it would give me some confidence in suggesting you seek your mans SR either by a researcher or by your own visit to Kew.

The SR will answer many questions you have raised to date.You could post a request on this forum either for a researtcher or a casual forum member lookup.

Roop

[J Sewell]

Dear Roop,

Many thanks.

Will keep looking.

Jim S

[Tim Birch]

Could it be that he was killed by a camouflet, rather than a full blown mine? This sort of counter mining activity was a regular occurance, and unlikely to receive much by way of a report.

Tim

[Mike_H]

Jim

176 Tunnelling Company war diary covering feb 1916 to June 1917 is at the NA - find it as WO 95/244

The entry for 9/7/16 reads:

enemy blew a mine in front of 2.5 badly damaging our galleries.

79843 Sapr Tuck W )

79836 " Hodgson J W )

79831 " Appleby J ) killed in action by explosion

79709 " Morley F ) of enemy mine

1547 Pte Widdison 22nd RF )

4897 Pte Shears E 2nd E Lancs )

14613 Pte Smith H 1st Worcesters )

Company location is recorded as Hersin, this would be where Company HQs were. I am sorry I can't give you a location for the 2.5 feature where the mine was blown.

Hope this helps

Mike

[Mike_H]

Jim

Transmission has altered the layout - the seven names are in column and bracketted together in the original with the comment at the centre.

M

[J Sewell]

Dear Mike,

Thanks for your info. Just off to the dentist!! but the names I suspect I will find on the CWGC site for Hersin Cemetery.

Now the trail runs to 2.5 which if his death certificate is correct was somewhere near Carency.

I'll be back

Jim S

[J Sewell]

Dear Mike,

have had a look at the Hersin Cemetery site again and all 7 of the chaps in the War Diary are buried in the same row, indeed side by side except for Private H Smith who is at the opposite end of the row plot IF20. The other six are in plots IF2-7.

What is sad is the number of soldiers who have their age shown as unknown. This applies to Sapper F Morley and I'm busy tryng to get CWGC to acknowledge his date of birth of 1st March 1894 making him 22yrs at the time of his death.

Will now get on and try and track down your reference to 2a. Perhaps the Regimental histories of the 3 Regiments of Shears, Smith and Widdowson may give a clue. Unless of course they had been attached as individuals to the REs.

yours aye

Jim S

[J Sewell]

Dear Mike,

have had a look at the Hersin ( I spelt this wrong in my opening request) Cemetery site again and all 7 of the chaps in the War Diary are buried in the same row, indeed side by side except for Private H Smith who is at the opposite end of the row plot IF20. The other six are in plots IF2-7.

What is sad is the number of soldiers who have their age shown as unknown. This applies to Sapper F Morley and I'm busy tryng to get CWGC to acknowledge his date of birth of 1st March 1894 making him 22yrs at the time of his death.

Will now get on and try and track down your reference to 2.5 Perhaps the Regimental histories of the 3 Regiments of Shears, Smith and Widdowson may give a clue. Unless of course they had been attached as individuals to the REs.

yours aye

Jim S

[J Sewell]

This one is for Tim Birch.

Based on Mike's response it looks as though you could be correct.

Jim S

[dannybou]

I am researching a Canadian soldier who joined the 44th Battalion CEF and was posted temporarily to the 176th Tunnelling from mid December 1916 to 3 April 1917. Since this is within a week of the attack of the Canadian Corps at Vimy, I am wondering if the War Diaries are accessible by a member of the forum in order to ascertain what the 176th was working on during those months. If it can assist, the soldier is 622933 Thomas Copeland who will die during Passchedaele. Thanks

Danny

[nigelcave]

176 Tunnelling Company is covered to some degree in The Underground War Vimy Ridge to Arras (I confess to being part author, the other being Phillip Robinson), published about fifteen months ago; 44 Bn CEF was in the 4th (Canadian) Div and 176 was working for some time in what was to be 4 Div's area on 9 April. Amongst other things, they worked on digging Souchez, Gobron and Coburg Subways; they also prepared a number of mines to be used on the day of the attack (but which were not, in the event, fired).

[dannybou]

Hi

OK thanks for the information. Would you have access to the War Diaries to check if my soldier is mentioned?

Danny

[dannybou]

There are some records of the 176th at LAC in the RG9 III C 1 series but I don't think they are the diaries but reports on mines.

Danny

[nigelcave]

Post 7 gives you the WD entry for that date; however, note that it is not 2.5 but Z.5, and within what was known as the S ie Souchez/Calonne Sector, overlapping with R ie Carency Sector. The WD makes several mentions of the Z systems and I shall see what I can do about placing Z.5 more precisely; certainly it was an area of fairly considerable mine fighting but, alas, was outside my area of detailed interest when writing the book.

[dannybou]

Hi Nigel

Thanks for this info. When I get a chance, I'll take a look at what is available at LAC in reference to the 176th.

Danny

[nigelcave]

Hi Nigel

Thanks for this info. When I get a chance, I'll take a look at what is available at LAC in reference to the 176th.

Danny

I never have had much success with attaching files. If this works, wonderful. Anyhow, the map is in the book, p. 86, not too far off the Pimple and close to what was in due time to be the area of teh Souchez Subway; I hope this is of use. As you can possibly make out, Z.5 is just above bottom centre of the map

[dannybou]

Thanks Nigel

I'll be reading your book in the near future.

Danny

[Graham Wagner]

was there a subway at Vimy called the Zouave tunnel that ran down the Zouave Valley?

Graham

 

[nigelcave]

Nope - there were one or two subways that ran under it (or, better, part of it) east west but NOT along its length. Most subways in the valley area emerged somewhere on the east side of the valley, but not all - and several had multiple exits towards their rear (i.e. BEF) end.

[Graham Wagner]

Thanks Nigel !