French cities vehicle emissions charges

[Dragon]

Yes - Strasbourg (which I know better than the Somme cities) has had its speed limit reduced to 70 kph for days on end this winter. Vast numbers of motorists have ignored it and been caught on cameras.

 

There is the bizarre effect that up in the Vosges there is full sun (beautiful!) and down on the Rhine plain it's dense cloud: the mountains ought to be in cloud. You can see the Bernese Alps in sun across a dense soup of cloud. Much of that is caused by pollution. This causes neige de pollution or neige industrielle ; water vapour freezes on particles of pollution and falls like snow. There have been villages on the Rhine plain which have had snow when the mountains at 1250m have been clear.

[healdav]

I have just sent an e-mail to the Automobile Club here as their website makes no mention of all this.

Given that most of their members drive into, out of and through France continually, this seems a little strange.

Edited 3 March , 2017 by healdav

[EAST YORKSHIRE]

Many thanks Kev and also to you MVA, I will now go through the rigmarole of applying for one!  Ian.

[KevinBattle]

The BBC website this morning has no less than 5 articles on air pollution - bit excessive?

However, it looks as if the infernal combustion engine may NOT be the main cause of fine particle emissions that get deep into the lungs, but smoke from "ecologically friendly" wood burners - so will there be a ban on those? Not allowed to light them on "bad 'air" days?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39115829

[Dragon]

In Alsace during episodes of high pollution, you are not allowed to use an open fireplace or old wood stove for burning wood or wood derivatives unless it's your primary means of heating. Burning green waste out of doors isn't allowed: you have to take green waste to a composting centre. Nor can people burn agricultural by-products such as straw and grass. The recommended threshold was exceeded 21 times in 2016. A very cold winter and a late spring don't help. We were there in the snow at the end of April 2016 and although the smell of woodsmoke is nostalgic and atmospheric, you can see clouds of it hanging in the bitterly cold air. I think one aspect they are looking at is the problem that wood is a green fuel and therefore better means of burning it need to be found as a matter of urgency.

 

Le chauffage résidentiel au bois est la première source d’émission de particules en suspension dans l’atmosphère (L'Alsace, 12.01.17)

[healdav]

It's rather strange, or perhaps not. No one French seems to have heard of this.

The latest info I have been able to get is that it only applies to those driving or going to drive in Paris (inside and not including, the Peripherique), Grenoble and Lyons - not the mtorways). Strasbourg, one of the places badly affected by pollution does not figure.

The whole subject is clear as mud. The government website has no information, and no one else really seems to either.

[clive_hughes]

Query - if one is driving a vehicle HIRED in the UK, eg. a minibus, whose responsibility is it to apply for the sticker?

 

 

[KevinBattle]

Ask the rental company

[Dragon]

7 hours ago, healdav said:

 Strasbourg, one of the places badly affected by pollution does not figure.

 

 

Coming in September, I believe.

Edited 8 March , 2017 by Dragon

[Tony N]

France isn't the only EU country with emission charges and stickers is it? I wonder how many windscreen stickers for people travelling to cities in EU countries with low emission zones are needed before one sticker becomes the EU regulated standard.

[mva]

14 hours ago, healdav said:

It's rather strange, or perhaps not. No one French seems to have heard of this.

The latest info I have been able to get is that it only applies to those driving or going to drive in Paris (inside and not including, the Peripherique), Grenoble and Lyons - not the mtorways). Strasbourg, one of the places badly affected by pollution does not figure.

The whole subject is clear as mud. The government website has no information, and no one else really seems to either.

I am French and do have heard about this - and got the sticker ! Here (Somme, countryside) we had pollution alerts & where I live (very little village), we need to be allowed to drive - no public transport at all

[SiegeGunner]

One wonders how long it will take to get the whole of France 'stickered up'.  In the meantime, I suspect that vehicles will only be checked for their vignette if stopped for some other reason, unless the police come to view it as a useful pretext for randomly stopping vehicles.  Do we know which 'agencies' will have powers to enforce this system ... for example, will municipal 'traffic wardens' check parked vehicles? 

[IRC Kevin]

Here is the list of towns planning to introduce the Vignette, according to 'This is Money', some of which will have a relevance to visitors to the Western Front. 

 

[mva]

2 hours ago, SiegeGunner said:

One wonders how long it will take to get the whole of France 'stickered up'.  In the meantime, I suspect that vehicles will only be checked for their vignette if stopped for some other reason, unless the police come to view it as a useful pretext for randomly stopping vehicles.  Do we know which 'agencies' will have powers to enforce this system ... for example, will municipal 'traffic wardens' check parked vehicles? 

'traffic wardens' : whom do you mean ? In France we have the police municipale, i.e. much more than traffic wardens ( https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_municipale_(France) - the English version is not very good ! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_Police_(France) ) & different from the police nationale. The police municipale checks parked cars (eg if you have not paid or paid enough), but it is possible, too, that you may be stopped for not having your sticker

[SiegeGunner]

The one most obviously relevant is perhaps Dunkirk, especially if enforcement is somehow integrated into the port clearance procedure on arrival.  That would be a particular nuisance to Pals who are only passing through France briefly en route to Belgium, where there is (as yet) no such emission classification system.

 

For myself, as the owner of a 25yr-old petrol-engined Range Rover, I'm still hanging fire and hoping someone else will discover what the implications of the scheme are for vehicles registered before the 'start date' of the classification (1997?).  The system is evidently based on manufacturers' declared emission data, but I'm not clear whether 1997 is an arbitrary date or is perhaps the date from which manufacturers were first required to declare such data.  If the latter, then perhaps my best prospect lies with getting an engineer's certificate stating my vehicle's actual measured emission level today (which is different from historical data due to changes in the formulation of fuel and improvements in the efficiency of consumable parts such as spark plugs).  But is there provision in the French system for that, and if not, what do I do in the meantime?

[SiegeGunner]

16 minutes ago, mva said:

'traffic wardens' : whom do you mean ?

 

Thanks mva.  I deliberately put 'traffic wardens' in inverted commas to try and cover whichever public officials have powers to check compliance with road traffic regulations.

[mva]

Here some informations from the www : in French, I'm sorry I have no time to translate, but Gogole may help !

• http://news.autoplus.fr/Vignette-écolo-Crit'air-Pollution-Ville-Carte-de-France-1513481.html
• (with some comparaisons in other countries) : http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/la-vignette-crit-air-nouveau-sesame-pour-rouler-dans-paris.N487604
• (Nord, Lille - automobile-club, critical ) : http://www.autoclubnord.com/le-grand-bazar-des-vignettes-crit-air-a-lille-166&rub=1.php

[IRC Kevin]

13 minutes ago, mva said:

Here some informations from the www : in French, I'm sorry I have no time to translate, but Gogole may help !

• http://news.autoplus.fr/Vignette-écolo-Crit'air-Pollution-Ville-Carte-de-France-1513481.html
• (with some comparaisons in other countries) : http://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/la-vignette-crit-air-nouveau-sesame-pour-rouler-dans-paris.N487604
• (Nord, Lille - automobile-club, critical ) : http://www.autoclubnord.com/le-grand-bazar-des-vignettes-crit-air-a-lille-166&rub=1.php

 

I see the latter site is saying that in reality, it will take several months from when the sticker is ordered, to actually receiving it. 

[Dragon]

Apart from people in Siege Gunner's position, people with classic vehicles, and people who are hiring cars, I can't really see what most drivers are stressing about. Yes, there is a list of cities which are planning to introduce the vignette: the uncertainty is when. Ségolène Royale has opined that cities must have good quality alternative transport available before they make vignettes mandatory (bus, tram, train...) - my words not hers. Strasbourg is trying to encourage car sharing, for example, and reducing the price of urban public transport. It already has a good system of trams. According to local newspapers, it will introduce the zone in September or the autumn. Officials are recommending that drivers apply for the vignette now.

 

I should have thought that the thing to do is to apply for one anyway, put in in place when it arrives then forget about it. It's very cheap. Once you've applied for it, you get a letter saying that you've applied for it and this letter says clearly: le coupon ci-dessous peut être utilisé comme justificatif provisoire de classement du véhicule dans l'attente de la réception du Certificat qualité de l'air par courrier - the letter is temporary proof of your vehicle's classification before the sticker itself arrives in the post. My letter arrived within three days.

 

My car has had a German emissions Plakette for years. I never give it a moment's thought except knowing that I can drive in and out of Freiburg without worrying. I did say in post 4 that I'm surprised that there isn't a Europe-wide system.

 

Gwyn

Edited 8 March , 2017 by Dragon
addn re public transport

[mva]

12 minutes ago, IRC Kevin said:

 

I see the latter site is saying that in reality, it will take several months from when the sticker is ordered, to actually receiving it. 

Can't say, I've ordered mine months ago & got it very quickly. Probably (too) many now realize they'd like to order it ...

[mva]

4 minutes ago, Dragon said:

(..) I should have thought that the thing to do is to apply for one anyway, put in in place when it arrives then forget about it. It's very cheap. Once you've applied for it, you get a letter saying that you've applied for it and this letter says clearly: le coupon ci-dessous peut être utilisé comme justificatif provisoire de classement du véhicule dans l'attente de la réception du Certificat qualité de l'air par courrier - the letter is temporary proof of your vehicle's classification before the sticker itself arrives in the post. My letter arrived within three days.

 

My car has had a German emissions Plakette for years. I never give it a moment's thought except knowing that I can drive in and out of Freiburg without worrying. I did say in post 4 that I'm surprised that there isn't a Europe-wide system.

 

Gwyn

I entirely agree ! In Rom, do as the Romans do ... It is true there should be an Europe-wide system (UK too ?)

[Dragon]

20 minutes ago, mva said:

It is true there should be an Europe-wide system (UK too ?)

 

I don't live in the south or ever drive into London, but there is a Low Emission Zone in London. Someone else will have to say how it works as it never affects me. My nearest city, Manchester, is developing a Low Emission Strategy, but at the moment they are trying to discourage unnecessary road use and introducing buses which are less polluting. They are investigating the possibility of a Clean Air Zone.

 

It's all a bit disjointed.

 

Where I live (a rural area) the public transport is so awful that if I go into Manchester I drive there and I won't stop doing that until there are regular, reliable, clean, modern trains. My husband commutes into Manchester via train and Brompton (folding bike) so he does his bit. But he can't rely on the trains being on time or even running.

 

Gwyn

Edited 8 March , 2017 by Dragon

[IRC Kevin]

20 minutes ago, mva said:

Can't say, I've ordered mine months ago & got it very quickly. Probably (too) many now realize they'd like to order it ...

 

I ordered mine on 1 Feb and still haven't got it. Not that I'm worried, as I have absolutely no intention of ever driving through Paris, or round the Peripherique, again- once was enough. It's more an early insurance against places, who may introduce the scheme, that I'm likely to visit at some time later this year- Dunkirk, Arras, Rouen, Rheims and Epernay. (I'm surprised that Caen isn't on the list) I can't see me ever replacing my current car, so once the sticker is on, that's it. (Unfortunately, as I changed my car last month, I also need to get a new Berlin sticker- which is a lot more expensive.)

[Tony N]

17 minutes ago, IRC Kevin said:

 

I ordered mine on 1 Feb and still haven't got it. Not that I'm worried, as I have absolutely no intention of ever driving through Paris, or round the Peripherique, again- once was enough. It's more an early insurance against places, who may introduce the scheme, that I'm likely to visit at some time later this year- Dunkirk, Arras, Rouen, Rheims and Epernay. (I'm surprised that Caen isn't on the list) I can't see me ever replacing my current car, so once the sticker is on, that's it. (Unfortunately, as I changed my car last month, I also need to get a new Berlin sticker- which is a lot more expensive.)

Does Berlin have an extra sticker to the standard German sticker? Last I heard the German Environmental Zone Sticker (Feinstaubplakette) was around 6 euros or so.

European countries with Low Emission Zones in place and planned for the future http://urbanaccessregulations.eu/userhome/map Uncheck the boxes that aren’t LEZ to see which cities impose restrictions in times of high pollution levels, or click on the cities for details.

 

[IRC Kevin]

15 minutes ago, Tony N said:

Does Berlin have an extra sticker to the standard German sticker? Last I heard the German Environmental Zone Sticker (Feinstaubplakette) was around 6 euros or so.

European countries with Low Emission Zones in place and planned for the future http://urbanaccessregulations.eu/userhome/map Uncheck the boxes that aren’t LEZ to see which cities impose restrictions in times of high pollution levels, or click on the cities for details.

 

 

 

I think the same sticker applies to any of the Green Zone cities, but the only one I regularly visit is Berlin. Last time I looked, it was Eu.15 for foreign registered cars, direct from TüV (then add the non-Sterling fee that banks put on top of this when you pay by card). Dearer if you go via commercial websites.

Edited 8 March , 2017 by IRC Kevin