jim.hood Posted 18 January , 2017 Share Posted 18 January , 2017 I enclose a pair of photos of a member of my wife's family (on her mother's side), namely George Lloyd Roberts who appears to have been in the Royal Field Artillery - I am at a loss as to what the five point white star on his right shoulder could be, any ideas? It looks as though he could also have the same star on his left shoulder. As a matter of interest, he had three other brothers in the army - Edward, Tom and Albert, and one younger brother Joe who, as far as we know, remained a civilian. We know about Albert (KSLI reg. no. 230387, KIA) but, apart from Tom's daughter-in-law telling me that Tom was in Salonika in WW1, we know nothing about the military service of the others, I haven't even found their regimental numbers so far, but I have got photos of them in uniform. Any information would be much appreciated. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 18 January , 2017 Share Posted 18 January , 2017 I have a picture of an MGC man with the same patch. I believe I was informed it to be troops serving in Russia in support of the White Russian forces who wore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 18 January , 2017 Share Posted 18 January , 2017 That makes a lot of sense I think. I know that the 'red army' wore a 5-point red star so a 5-point white star seems a likely counter insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 19 January , 2017 Share Posted 19 January , 2017 Jim, At the end of the war the British Salonika Army was redesignated as the army of the Black sea. 27th and 28th Divisions were sent to support the white russians against the Bolsheviks, it's possible that your man was attached to one of these divisions. There is a topic in ths Salonika and the Balkans sub forum that may be of interest: Army of the Black sea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.hood Posted 20 January , 2017 Author Share Posted 20 January , 2017 Thanks all for the information, the shoulder patch seems to make sense to me now. The info and link from Gardenerbill was most useful and prompted me towards further research into the Salonika connection which, it appears, could be relevant to both George Lloyd Roberts and his brother Tom. I found the following Wikipedia link:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_contribution_to_the_Allied_Intervention_in_Russia_1918–19 Within this article is a reference to Corporal Arthur Sullivan whose photagraph appears to show him wearing the white five point star patch on his shoulder. By clicking on a further "Arthur Sullivan" link we find that Arthur, an Australian, enlisted in the British Army on 28 May 1919 and played his part, with the North Russia Relief Force, in the Allied Intervention in the Russian Civil War. His brave action in saving his fellow soldiers from drowning in a swamp led to Sullivan being awarded the VC. I enclose a photo of Georges brother Tom:- Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 20 January , 2017 Share Posted 20 January , 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, jim.hood said: Thanks all for the information, the shoulder patch seems to make sense to me now. The info and link from Gardenerbill was most useful and prompted me towards further research into the Salonika connection which, it appears, could be relevant to both George Lloyd Roberts and his brother Tom. I found the following Wikipedia link:- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_contribution_to_the_Allied_Intervention_in_Russia_1918–19 Within this article is a reference to Corporal Arthur Sullivan whose photagraph appears to show him wearing the white five point star patch on his shoulder. By clicking on a further "Arthur Sullivan" link we find that Arthur, an Australian, enlisted in the British Army on 28 May 1919 and played his part, with the North Russia Relief Force, in the Allied Intervention in the Russian Civil War. His brave action in saving his fellow soldiers from drowning in a swamp led to Sullivan being awarded the VC. I enclose a photo of Georges brother Tom:- Jim Interesting that he is wearing the modified, or utility pattern jacket generally issued from late 1914 to Summer 1915. Edited 20 January , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgibson150 Posted 21 January , 2017 Share Posted 21 January , 2017 (edited) Jim, I think you are right about the star badge worn by Arthur Sullivan. The description of the photograph on the Australian War Memorial is - "Portrait of Corporal Arthur Percival Sullivan VC, a member of the AIF, who, later enlisted in the North Russian Relief Force, in the 45th Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers and gained his Victoria Cross for gallantry in rescuing under fire an officer and three men from drowning whilst fighting a rearguard action during a withdrawal across the Sheika River. Corporal Sullivan is wearing the North Russian Relief Force Star." The link is as follows https://www.awm.gov.au/collection/A02497/ David Edited 21 January , 2017 by dgibson150 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.hood Posted 21 January , 2017 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2017 That confirms it. Thanks very much David Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.hood Posted 21 January , 2017 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2017 Thanks Frogsmile for your interesting input. I am still a relative novice at this but am I right in thinking that you can see a 'Flash' on Tom's uniform that indicates he was in the '23rd Regt, The Royal Welsh Fuzileers'? Up to now I have not had much idea about his military service. Just to complete the known Roberts family WW1 military brothers I enclose what we have on Edward (Ted) and Albert (Bert):- Is Edward's cap badge KSLI?:- Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 January , 2017 Share Posted 21 January , 2017 (edited) All I can say about Tom is that he is dressed for mounted duty with spurs and wearing 1903 bandolier equipment that was worn by mounted troops such as cavalry (also yeomanry), artillery and ASC drivers, and the transport sections of infantry battalions. He has a lanyard at his shoulder that generally secured a clasp knife in a breast pocket. The RWF flash was a fan of swallow tailed black ribbons worn suspended on the back of the collar, so it could only be seen from the rear. I can see nothing to suggest that he wears one. Edited 21 January , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 21 January , 2017 Share Posted 21 January , 2017 17 hours ago, jim.hood said: I enclose a photo of Georges brother Tom:- Jim Hi Jim, great set of family portraits you have. Any chance of a close up of Tom's shoulder title and buttons? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 21 January , 2017 Share Posted 21 January , 2017 1 hour ago, jim.hood said: Is Edward's cap badge KSLI?:- Jim KSLI looks a good fit. You can see lettering above the bugle, between the strings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 January , 2017 Share Posted 21 January , 2017 Yes, I would say KSLI too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 21 January , 2017 Share Posted 21 January , 2017 A small point, but the type of SD jacket Thomas, Edward and Albert are wearing is correctly known as the Simplified jacket. The term "utility" in this context is from WW2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim.hood Posted 21 January , 2017 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2017 In answer to GWF1967 above I enclose a close-up of Toms shoulders and buttons, although I'm not sure that it is a decent enough quality to help that much:- Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 21 January , 2017 Share Posted 21 January , 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, wainfleet said: A small point, but the type of SD jacket Thomas, Edward and Albert are wearing is correctly known as the Simplified jacket. The term "utility" in this context is from WW2. Yes, I had meant that when I used the term 'modified', not being able to remember on the spur of the moment the correct, 'simple' aspect. A small matter as you say, but better to be correct. Edited 21 January , 2017 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrightdw Posted 8 August , 2018 Share Posted 8 August , 2018 The White Star badge on navy blue backing is that of the North Russia Relief Force of 1919 which fought the Red Army south of Akrhangelsk on the Dvina River. The men nicknamed themselves 'White Star Liners'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now