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gronksmil

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gronksmil

Hi All, this booklet was printed for Australasian troops in Egypt 1915.It is quite a rare book aside from a few known

copies in institutions in Australia.Regards Gronky.

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trajan

What an exciting piece to have! And the title - "Australasian" - is interesting to see!

Edited by trajan
spelling!

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MartH

It the rarest of all C W Bean publications and most likely the rarest Australian publication of or on the Great War and not in the major bibliographies. 

 

One was sold at auction in October 2014 see below for link

 

I would think today if a signed associated copy in this condition came up for auction it could easily fetch up to $15,000 Aus, and maybe a lot more.

 

Does it have the additional map issued at the time, but not as part of it, tipped in the back like some other copies?

 

Link to the auction, Click 

 

A significant find, I suggest you get a professional book box made for to protect it.

 

Do you know anything about the man and how did it came into your possession?

 

Thanks for posting

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gronksmil

Hi Mart H,yes it does have the map inside. I found this booklet about 15 years ago in a box of old books, yorky was in south Australia at the

time the war broke out ,his mother's address was Hull England.He joined the A.I.F. on the 20.8.14. he was in B section 3rd field ambulance.

Regards Gronky.

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MartH

Gorky, thanks for the information. Having the map is very fortuitous, it is my understanding that the copies in institutions don't have the map, but you'd need to check.

 

There is an online copy too.

 

Very interesting about the man.

 

I normally don't rate association copies, unless they are very special like this, but this is this is the rarest publication by CW Bean, and issued before shortly before Galipoli. WoW!

 

Here's a link to a short video on the work Click

 

 

 

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gronksmil

Hi MartH, I will post some photo's of another rare publication from the torrens island internment camp in south australia

there is only one copy in our state library no other institutions in Australia have this paper.I have the only other known example.

 Thanks for your comments, the y.m.c.a. in cairo published a map very similar to the map in the booklet,i will dig it up and

put some photo's of that as well.Regards Gronky.

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MartH

Surviving Torrens Island publications are extremely rare, next you'll say you have a copy of the Appendices Vol III of the Australian Medical History.

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gronksmil

Hi MartH, YOU won't believe this but I do in fact have a complete set of the medical history.I also collect the troopship books and have some

of the field publications for the camel corps, camel corp field ambulance, kia-ora-cooee. I will post some pics today.Regards Gronky.

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gronksmil

Here are some photo's of the torrens island internment camp publication as well as

the Australian medical history vol 1,2,3. plus 1 and 2 in the box. Also one of my favourite

pieces.Regards Gronky.

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MartH

Very nice Torrens Island publication, judging from the date it must of have come from the second camp shortly before it closed down, 

 

Nice medicals but alas like myself it is not a complete set, and is missing the super rare separate appendices to volume 3. Are your volumes, the rare unsigned ones?

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gronksmil

I will contact a friend of mine to see if he has the appendices to volume 3, if any one has it he would.

 I will let you know . cheers gronky.

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MartH

Thanks gronky, 

 

Where there any shipboard publications done by the AIF on the transport ships?

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gronksmil

Hi MartH, Have you got the book From trench and troopship by david kent .He lists the pubications on troopships.

like these.As for the transports themselves I am not sure.I have seen one of the first troopship paper printed on cloth,the next issue from the

same ship was paper.

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other ranker

I have found an interesting UK First edition copy of 'Nothing Of Importance'.I have tried to fiddle about with a scan from the Front end pages that shows that someone from the First battalion Welch Fusiliers has named all the characters by who they really are. I don't know if this is important information, but it seems exciting to me! You may not be able to see all the detail on the scan, but in life it is quite easy to see.

scan0001.jpg

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voltaire60

   MartH- Wow!!  Impressive collections from yourself and Gronksmil.  May I butt in with a question about "official histories"- a request I have in part posted elsewhere on the Forum. Yes, there are the "official" histories-and then there are items written-up as official histories or thereabouts but for some reason never published in the official histories series of either world war. I am thinking of:

1) Drink 1914-1923- which I think was projected "official" history-but probably for the Carnegie Series-eventually published by Longmans.

2) The Pratt volumes on the railways-I believe similar.

 

3) The internal histories, often privately printed up- I have BUCASE (Butter control) and the Hop Control Board(Can't find another one of those to give you the reference)-and one for Iron control. Just how many are out there!!

 

3) "Officials" left out- eg The Fire Service viols.for the Second World War, a set of which is on the open shelves at Kew in the NA Library. Similarly, what was intended as the WW2 Civil Series volume on Education did not get published in the normal HMSO series but was published from an extant ready copy by Routledge, ed.Peter Gordon a few years back.

   Just how many projected "official" history volumes for either war never made it to publication??? Do we know how many are still retained within government-particularly with the Cabinet Office or with DROs???

4) And finally-what about the draft volumes with the double footnotes???  UK Civil Series,WW2. I have a vol. of the British Foreign Policy series in gestetnered typescript with the double footnotes,which I got from the library of Harry Hinsley. And the one on Food Control. Would you know if these double-footnoted drafts (to publishable and confidential documents-only the former footnotes appeared in the published volumes).  And,of course, were there any similar confidential footnote vols. for any of the "officials" for the Great War?.

    Don't worry- I am not a competitor-just a retired bookseller who happened to have a few of these curiosities come my way over the years(eg Archangel River Expedition in the Naval Staff stuff-never seen another). A while back I phoned the Cabinet Office and asked if they had anything that was still not released or published-A nice lady said she was looking at a wall full of bits and pieces all of which was still in the Cabinet office for one reason or another-though the wall did include all the published vols. (Blast!)

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MartH

I shall try and answer the easy questions.

 

The WW2 OH's where printed in two types, 1) for public consumption, and 2) Confidential Copies with footnotes know as Cabinet Office Copies. Confidential versions of the Great War OH exist, Casualties and Medical Statistics, Occupation of the Rhineland, Operation in Persia, the big blue The Blockade Volume, the Administration of the Blockade, and of course the Ministry of Munitions set.

 

I know of Education but did it ever come out? I thought Dr Peter Godson was going to use the material, which is probably why I missed it. Did it ever come out?

 

You have to define what an OH is, in my view the material for the Carnegie series was like that used for the OH's.

 

The ones that where partially written but not finished where Occupation of Constantinople  and East  Africa  Vol II.

 

I don't think they ever planned drink, railways is Transportation on the Western Front, they thought about artillery like the Germans, who even thought of a Heavy Artillery volume.

 

The fabled missing OH is Eastern Siberia....

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Dust Jacket Collector
15 hours ago, other ranker said:

I have found an interesting UK First edition copy of 'Nothing Of Importance'.I have tried to fiddle about with a scan from the Front end pages that shows that someone from the First battalion Welch Fusiliers has named all the characters by who they really are. I don't know if this is important information, but it seems exciting to me! You may not be able to see all the detail on the scan, but in life it is quite easy to see.

 

In one of my copies of 'Nothing of Importance' (given by Adams' sister, Angela, to a W.A.Darlington) the recipient has copied out part of a letter from Sassoon in which he mentions giving a copy of the book to St. John's Library in which he lists the real names of the characters. I imagine the previous owner of your book may have seen that copy.

IMG_20170213_0001-001.jpg

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voltaire60
2 hours ago, MartH said:

I shall try and answer the easy questions.

 

The WW2 OH's where printed in two types, 1) for public consumption, and 2) Confidential Copies with footnotes know as Cabinet Office Copies. Confidential versions of the Great War OH exist, Casualties and Medical Statistics, Occupation of the Rhineland, Operation in Persia, the big blue The Blockade Volume, the Administration of the Blockade, and of course the Ministry of Munitions set.

 

I know of Education but did it ever come out? I thought Dr Peter Godson was going to use the material, which is probably why I missed it. Did it ever come out?

 

You have to define what an OH is, in my view the material for the Carnegie series was like that used for the OH's.

 

The ones that where partially written but not finished where Occupation of Constantinople  and East  Africa  Vol II.

 

I don't think they ever planned drink, railways is Transportation on the Western Front, they thought about artillery like the Germans, who even thought of a Heavy Artillery volume.

 

The fabled missing OH is Eastern Siberia....

 

 

 

      Wow-Thanks for such a comprehensive and interesting response- and intriguing as well.  Decades ago, I built up a set of the Carnegie UK volumes-and often wondered what the relationship was between the Carnegie Endowment and the UK Government- the access to civil servants and information seems a privileged one for some of the volumes-eg  The Lloyd volume "Experiments in State Control". I suspect the link may be the then Sir William Beveridge (author of the food volume),which may also account for the involvement of the Oxford University Press as well(though large amounts of dosh from Carnegie may have eased the way)

    The volume "Drink 1914-1922:A Lesson in Control" by Arthur Shadwell specifically states that it was prepared for the Carnegie series-and my memory is that Edwin A Pratt says the same in the preface to the 2 vols. on the railways in the war. As it is, there is also the later volume written by Francis Hirst on "Consequences" and published by Oxford in red cloth-which was their wont for economics books in the inter-war years.

   As to the proper official histories, thanks for confirming that the "Cabinet Office" copies may well exist for all the Civil Series for WW2. I have yet to see a "double footnote" volume for the Great War. And the existence-or,at least, strong rumour as to other prepared volumes may be something that I will chase after. My experience of UK government is that often they forget why something was withheld and it just lingers in "the office" or with a Departmental Record Officer" Would you know if any efforts have been made to establish the existence (and thereafter "outing" of any remaining classified vols). Ah,the happy days of yesteryear -when Your Humble walked from his student hall of residence near the Post Office Tower up to a military bookshop in Kilburn High Road-which (1972-73) had literally stacks of the "Blockade of the Central Powers" vol. piled outside at £8 a pop.

(Education- I was thinking of the Gosden volume- first published in 1976.Although later than the rest of the "Civils" my memory is that it was commissioned as such in order to fill a gap)

 

 

 

 

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paulgranger

Ah, Bivouac Books of fond memory. It's where I began collecting my OH volumes. I can still remember going in the shop, and asking 'Are you having a sale?', only to be told they were closing down. Oh, woe, Oh, misery.

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Steven Broomfield
19 minutes ago, paulgranger said:

Ah, Bivouac Books of fond memory. It's where I began collecting my OH volumes. I can still remember going in the shop, and asking 'Are you having a sale?', only to be told they were closing down. Oh, woe, Oh, misery.

 

Happy days indeed.

 

And Hersant's (or 'The Cholmondley Children's Bookshop' as I think they were also called) in the Archway Road area.

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MartH

There is a whole range of military Book dealers alas no more: Rare and Racey in Sheffield, Max Powling, Frank Smith (New Castle), Peter de Lotz, etc. And Maggs Bros sold the most wonderful military books at decent prices in the 1980's.

 

With respect to WW2 Cabinet Office copies, I have several Military ones, I will check the Civils some time, and of course there are the 3 volumes on Nuclear done by Margret Gowing. There is also a special confidential production volume, with colour graphs.

 

Would like to know more about what happened to the Education volume, did it ever get published?

 

It is quite likely other Great War Emergency Departments did OH's.

 

The red WW2 The Army at War Series, most have a chapter on the Great War.

 

I would love to see a scan of the title page and preface of the Butter Control and Hop Control.

 

We have yet to discuss the possible production of India Army Great War Official Histories, I bet they drafted some but where not allowed to produce them.

 

 

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other ranker
3 hours ago, Dust Jacket Collector said:

In one of my copies of 'Nothing of Importance' (given by Adams' sister, Angela, to a W.A.Darlington) the recipient has copied out part of a letter from Sassoon in which he mentions giving a copy of the book to St. John's Library in which he lists the real names of the characters. I imagine the previous owner of your book may have seen that copy.

IMG_20170213_0001-001.jpg

DJC, it says in the book I scanned that it was 'annotated in the faculty library Oxford'. This is written in pencil in the same hand. You don't suppose it is the book you describe?

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seaJane

If anyone can ever point me at a spare copy of these two volumes in the Official History of the Great War, Medical Series, I shall be very glad to know! (archive.org is not quite the same as a complete set on the shelf... )

  • Diseases of the War v.3 (Medical services during the operations on the Western Front in 1916, 1917 and 1918 ; in Italy ; and in Egypt and Palestine)
  • General History v.4 (Medical services during the operations on the Gallipoli peninsula; in Macedonia; in Mesopotamia and North-West Persia; in East Africa; in the Aden Protectorate, and in North Russia. Ambulance transport during the war)

(Likewise, and at the risk of getting my licence to post endorsed, the collection lacks v.5 (Burma) of the Army Medical Services and v.3 (Campaigns) of the RAF Medical Services sequences for the Medical Series, United Kingdom, in WW2 ... :ph34r: )

 

sJ

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MartH
1 minute ago, seaJane said:

If anyone can ever point me at a spare copy of these two volumes in the Official History of the Great War, Medical Series, I shall be very glad to know! (archive.org is not quite the same as a complete set on the shelf... )

  • Diseases of the War v.3 (Medical services during the operations on the Western Front in 1916, 1917 and 1918 ; in Italy ; and in Egypt and Palestine)
  • General History v.4 (Medical services during the operations on the Gallipoli peninsula; in Macedonia; in Mesopotamia and North-West Persia; in East Africa; in the Aden Protectorate, and in North Russia. Ambulance transport during the war)

(Likewise, and at the risk of getting my licence to post endorsed, the collection lacks v.5 (Burma) of the Army Medical Services and v.3 (Campaigns) of the RAF Medical Services sequences for the Medical Series, United Kingdom, in WW2 ... :ph34r: )

 

sJ

 

First point Diseases of the War was only done in 2 volumes, not 3. Do you mean General History Volume 3

 

What collection are you referring to for WW2? 

 

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seaJane
6 minutes ago, other ranker said:

DJC, it says in the book I scanned that it was 'annotated in the faculty library Oxford'. This is written in pencil in the same hand. You don't suppose it is the book you describe?

 

Oxford University's online catalogue shows a copy of Nothing of importance at the Bodleian, shelfmark "Owen HO227" which I think must be the English Faculty Library (now part of the Bodleian empire). EFL holds Wilfred Owen's books and papers and I would not be at all surprised to find that Sassoon had given Owen an annotated copy.

 

There's no record in the catalogue of a copy at St John's College 

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