IWM sales policy

[ss002d6252]

9 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

    But surely  the Main Library at Chateau Broomfield is already larger than that of IWM?  I suspect Mrs. B. may have muttered such from time to time....  given the traditional view of hubby's book collection by the average spouse

Luckily my wife has the same outlook on books as me - probably growing our collection at a dozen or two each month on average. Starting to run out of space.

 

Craig

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

Luckily my wife has the same outlook on books as me - probably growing our collection at a dozen or two each month on average. Starting to run out of space.

 

     It's alright Craig, if you run out of space, the wife can go

[ss002d6252]

21 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

 

     It's alright Craig, if you run out of space, the wife can go

Already decided on that Mike

 

Craig

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

34 minutes ago, voltaire60 said:

 

     It's alright Craig, if you run out of space, the wife can go

Already decided on that Mike

 

      Just remember-her already packed suitcases in the hallway are taking up book space.

Seriously, as a bookseller I am well aware of the wife-book antipathy-One of my customers in Northern Ireland used to get me to send books purchased from me to another country- sent to a newsagents in Dundalk (Republic), so he could pick them up on days when his Missus was out.

[clive_hughes]

What I'm concerned about it the loose way that "archives" are being mentioned as having been disposed of.  What sort of material is that?  The IWM 35 years ago had subject-specific departments, eg Film, Printed Books, Photographs, Documents, Art, Exhibits & Firearms.  I'm not at all sure nowadays that these fairly obvious categories are watertight.   I gather there's now a "Cold War" Department, but how does that relate to the plethora of media above?

 

Documents were by definition mostly unique material - letters, diaries, unpublished memoirs and so on.  Donors (comparatively little material was borrowed for copying, or offered as xerox) were assured that on no account would the IWM part with anything like that: it was held to be in breach of the 1917 founding Charter to do so.  

 

On one occasion in the early 1980s, a WW2 diary was purchased at auction and the family turned up asking for it back - it had been lent to someone, who had passed on or whatever, and the next people simply didn't know it's background and sold it.  It was a most ticklish situation, and the matter was raised at high levels in the Museum and beyond.  Eventually, it was decreed that the item had been bought in good faith, in market overt (as it were), and it couldn't be parted with even to the family - because of the guiding principle in the previous paragraph.  

 

I'd be mortified to think that actual archive documents of that sort were now being disposed of - is there any evidence of this?  If not, what does "archives" in the disposal list refer to??  The Printed Books (Library) people, by the way, were custodians of all manner of printed ephemera - postage stamps, trench maps, leaflets, etc.  There was the Womens War Work collection: the Belgian Refugee collection (local records of assistance given etc.) and others.  Are these things ending up elsewhere?   

 

Some of the volumes were in a sense unique or nearly so: the copy of Officers Died In The Great War while hardly unique was officially annotated with a myriad of corrections and additions.  For the WW1 Divisions (in France, at least) there were small-format bound typed digests of events, complete with casualties per month.  The "Ephemera" series which was coded "K" had all manner of filing-cabinet goodies including WW1 leaflets of a local/regional/regimental nature, statistics of men joining and being sent out as reinforcements from some second-line TF battalions, and much, much more.  

 

I won't go on; but the chilling way that these extensive National collections are being regarded as a nuisance to their custodians, and simply ripe for "rationalisation" by cheap sale/disposal just depresses me no end.

 

Clive 

 

 

Edited 14 January , 2017 by clive_hughes
Spelling errors

[Guest]

    Clive- Your post is worrying-and a cheering reminiscence of what the situation should still be. I have deliberately not raised the matter of archives. IWM Charter would give difficulties even if a new home was found- but access and promotion of the collection seem to have died a death. Personally, I find the IWM collections search rather time-consuming and unhelpful.

There seems to be no clear overview of what is available- Your reference to a Belgian Refugee collection is unknown to me-even though my local area has been written up by a good local historian (Pat Heron-Guests of the Nation)

    I am not even keen on going to IWM any more- just too many sales points around the place- I get the same feeling as when I see the chuggers- just too many of them and the only real interest of the institution is to generate visitor numbers- that is, what will keep a child happy for 1-2 hours- and flog them some stuff while they are at it.

 

            Does anyone on the Forum actually know what the new,super-duper library set-up is going to be? Are their plans?

 

[Steven Broomfield]

1 hour ago, voltaire60 said:

 

      Just remember-her already packed suitcases in the hallway are taking up book space.

Seriously, as a bookseller I am well aware of the wife-book antipathy-One of my customers in Northern Ireland used to get me to send books purchased from me to another country- sent to a newsagents in Dundalk (Republic), so he could pick them up on days when his Missus was out.

 

I find having them delivered to work helps: it's a game we play. She knows it happens and I know she knows it happens, but it adds a degree of entertainment to what would otherwise be two fairly dull and pointless existences.

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

I find having them delivered to work helps: it's a game we play. She knows it happens and I know she knows it happens, but it adds a degree of entertainment to what would otherwise be two fairly dull and pointless existences.

 

     But how do you overcome the body searches, bag searches, x-ray scanners and sniffer dogs when you get to the front door of Chateau Broomfield?  Most wives start making reference to "mushrooms"- stuf that "appears" out of nowhere one morning

[charlie962]

I feel I must respectfully draw your attention to incorrect terminology too often seen in this thread. The word Disposal should not be used and could lead to unneccesary emotional disturbance in certain readers. Please substitute Managed Exit, as per IWMs 2015/6 Accounts (notes to a/cs 8c):

 

  

 

Charlie

      

 

[ss002d6252]

2 minutes ago, charlie962 said:

I feel I must respectfully draw your attention to incorrect terminology too often seen in this thread. The word Disposal should not be used and could lead to unneccesary emotional disturbance in certain readers. Please substitute Managed Exit, as per IWMs 2015/6 Accounts (notes to a/cs 8c):

 

  

 

Charlie

      

 

'Managed Exit'  - is that where a manager makes it exit the building ?

 

Craig

[Guest]

charlie962-  even the management-speak is scary. If you dispose of something, it's disposal- all the gobbleygook in the world won't hide that.

   "Managed exit" seems to me to be someone involved in assisted dying- Come to think of it, that is exactly what the IWM is doing- letting something die and assisting that course of action.

[GWF1967]

51 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

'Managed Exit'  - is that where a manager makes it exit the building ?

 

Craig

Managed Exit sounds like they contracted someone at great expense to oversee that exit. 

[Kitty55]

Hi

O.K all I know is I've done a small MLA course - for those who don't know it's the Museum, Libraries & Archives course which all, including volunteer curators of museums have to do. I did it - pause for thought - ah yes, good god! - 14 years ago. My time files.

On this course possibly the most stressed thing apart from us that were listening was the fact of REMITS - horrid things they are. Perhaps that's what is happening at the IWM – some things no longer qualify to be held in their collection. All I know is the little museum I was helping to run didn't have to fight with a larger local county run museum any more. We gained in the remit distribution as they were the newer of the two they had to allow us the history of the town - but not the countryside - that became theirs totally.

As to books and postcards on the town and its war connections, pubs, shops etc. Well - I personally have now got over 3,000 books nearly all on WWI, Boer War, Local History and Witchcraft etc. (yes the latter is what I studied at Uni). I admit to a few cookery books and handicraft ones too.

Postcards - over 4,500 in total and nearly all on Dereham and the folk who live there along with the war ones.

And nothing is catalogued yet - I'm a trained correlate r not cataloguer. Yes they are different things but I'm not going into that now.

So do I live in a large house - YES in the middle of the fields.

Am I jealous of my husband - YES he has 7 old bangers he's doing up and a very large shed - it's got 7 work bays, a pit and then all his equipment in an extension at the side, plus the barn (upstairs and down with a toilet, kettle, sink etc.) and five more sheds full of what he calls spares - or as one of our grand-daughter calls them 'dirty hurty bits'.

Me I have two rooms in the house - the smallest two besides the front loo - both 10 x 15 foot, thinking about it even the wet/shower room and bathrooms are bigger!

One is full of books, 4 computers (2 with 30" screens) etc., & post cards - funnily enough it's called my study. Where I am now. Oh yep, there's all my DVD collection in here too - well they've kind of leaked into the lounge. And there's a 15 foot wall full of books in the lounge too as well as two the same size in here. No wonder I can't remember where I saw a picture of a soldier I want to look at again.

My other room is over full with material, ribbon, lace, etc. but I can just about find my way to one of my sewing machines (yes I've got three - they all do different things - well most of the time). However, this room also has to have a single bed in it for visitors as they always seem to turn up in droves. Hence the other double bedrooms fill up.

 

Oh NO - he's just got home at this hour! - Pleased as punch - he's bought another flaming car! Evidently he's late as he had to fix the lights before he could drive it home from Cambridge.

So does he put up with my books etc. - Yes - they are in every room of the house - thou he hardly ever reads and if he does it's about motors with the occasionally the war book on the war I'm not to mention on here but that came after this sites one.

Do I put up with his cars - well most times - except when he drives them round the estate and revs them under my bedroom window, waking me up, thinking - I'll be as pleased as him that he's got another one or fixed a bit. But then after 42 years who cares - we don't seem to - we're still together and quite happy - having a big house & 2 acres of land certainly helps,

 

P.S. My library friends were so upset when they found out about the books and not being allowed to stock any new ones - so please don't judge all folk the same - most librarians love books - some more than life itself -

So, I wonder how many of the IWM books are now at home in librarians homes?

 

Thanks and take care, Kitty

I've got to go and look at this car so I can get some peace from him pestering me. At least then he'll not wake me for a while as he's not slept yet. Always look for the sunny side.

 

[David Filsell]

The British Library is surprisingly deficient in not (apparently) having listed many  books about the Great War on their awkward catalogue systemas I found out when seeking information about English translations of German works about the Great war. My first check now is always the magnificent Library of Congress. A winner almost every time, even for works not published in the USA.

[trajan]

4 minutes ago, David Filsell said:

... My first check now is always the magnificent Library of Congress. A winner almost every time, even for works not published in the USA.

 

Slightly off-topic but having spent a 3 month period there, yes, a great library to work in, especially so as its collections traditionally represent requests from members of congress! 

[Kitty55]

Hi

Sorry still off point a little but just relping to the comment above.

 

God that would be good if our MP's thought as much about history as evidently the Americans do - I've met several MP's and usually the ones that say they know about history - well how can I put it politely - I can trip them up and as I keep saying I'm not a war historian.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kitty55 said:

God that would be good if our MP's thought as much about history as evidently the Americans do - I've met several MP's and usually the ones that say they know about history - well how can I put it politely - I can trip them up and as I keep saying I'm not a war historian.

 

     Several MPs are pro-book and libraries- Some even read books. Some actually buy old books from people like me. Some MPs can actually read (despite the myths).

    The likeliest MP to raise concerns about IWM would seem to be Keith Simpson, not only a long-serving MP but a published author on aspects of military history.(Obvious,then,why he is not a Trustee of IWM). A liitle note to him might help the cause......

[Kitty55]

 

How do you know that I know him?

I wouldn't say he knows that much about the old contemptibles though - I've got his book - he gave it to me – I much prefer Andrew Rawson’s version – far better researched, wonderful little maps and a really good detailed account of the action stating all the different regiments too. I won't say I know Keith though - it's almost 25 years since he gave me that book and I have only seen him once since then, and having just looked at the book again I guess it's OK but I like more detail.

Yes, I also know Neil Storey and several other authors - I've not gone out to know them they seem to just introduce themselves to me occasionally a various functions I've gone to and then some like Neil say a good and helpful friend. Having said that he's nearer by eldest lad's age than mine, and I've done some research for him - but that was awhile ago before I became too ill - though I'm slowly getting better now. All the same I've so much to catch up on and many things I want to complete.

So having found a good detailed  account of Hooge online and in Andrew’s book (1915 BEF campaign)  I’m going to get that part of my book finished – Dereham had a MC awarded and two KIA at it so plenty to try and get into the two pages I’ve allowed myself on it. Pity I can't find a photo of Major John Wormald who won the MC - I've got the write up on it and why he got it. - He's the first soldier I've not been able to get a photo of - guess though I'm doing well with photos so far as I've got up to mid 1915 all the way from just before the Boer War - the books got roughly 2 action photos and 1 person photo on every two pages so far.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Kitty55 said:

How do you know that I know him?

 

    Kitty- Then drop him a note. Even better if he is your MP, given the restrictions on MPs intervening in matters relating to another constituency than their own. A national institution,however, is open to all for lobbying or letter-writing. Sharpen that pen!!

[Kitty55]

Hi

As I said I've not seen him to speak to for nearly 25 years now doubt he'd even remember me besides which I've already got too much to do. Added to which I think he's moved so I've no idea how to get in touch with him.

If I had that much time I think I'd probably rather catalogue my collection than write letters. And then I've got to make and sew my new curtains as at present I've only got big fleece blankets up on the windows.

As to sharpening my pen - I'll have to do another trip to Poundland first to get some more - the dog's just chewed the last two that worked.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

Edited 15 January , 2017 by Kitty55

[Kitty55]

P.s. I'll try to get in touch with George Freeman, the Mid Norfolk MP I've got his details and know him better. He usually tries to get something done i.e. the A47 problems.

 

Why don't we all get in touch with our local MP's that way something might if not resolved at least be explained as to what is actually happening behind the scenes.

 

In the 70's if memory serves me right - of my more militant days at Uni and campaigning for various things - i.e. remember the 'Rainbow Warrior' or 'Elfin' - CND marches, etc. etc. enough said. - there was a thing called 'PEOPLE POWER' - we spoke up if we didn't like something - the nations a little too passive nowadays - personally I blame the soaps etc. they tend to make people just argue with those in the same family, circle or even house when they could direct their energies on something like the IWM selling the nations books off!

 

I was a lot more powerful then especially through the job I used to have but then that's now under wraps and not allowed to be talked about - hush hush stuff - get the drift.

So I guess that's why some folk remembber me - unfortunately they still think I'm like that - having all that clout.

 

Now, well I'm kind of lazier but I'm getting my Zest back just give me another year without any health problems and watch the whirlwind as I used to be called arrive back. Basically if I didn't like something I would complain right to the top - even got to Buckingham Palace once. But then my best friend at tech was the daughter Sandringham's estate manager so yes, meet the Queen Mother - many times - both socially and through work etc. Lovely lady and Prince Philip just my type of humour.

 

But that was years ago, Helen my friend is dead as are many others. Still mustn't dwell on things like that. I've not got time to

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

[Guest]

23 hours ago, David Filsell said:

he British Library is surprisingly deficient in not (apparently) having listed many  books about the Great War on their awkward catalogue system

 

      I have mentioned BL in the context of moving IWM Library because it does have rich collections in most everything -but they are not isolated out. Yes, the catalogue system is awkward, although sometimes it does what all perverse systems do- messes you around nine times out of ten, then throws up a gem from the bowels of god-knows-where in the system.

    Although IWM's task has been done with dedication since foundation-or at least until recently, it is perhaps worthwhile remembering one salient truth- IWM was set up after the Great War and has collected retrospectively- BL-or rather the old British Museum Library- was collecting continuously through the Great War years and had the advantage of copyright deposit.Thus, for example, I note that BL has a good range of little unit newspapers that are not found at IWM.

   I think the underlying moral of the story is for institutions to play to their strengths- IWM's strengths are the depth of coverage, now compromised by not keeping up to snuff- thus, the integrity of the collection and the means of public access to it must be paramount. Being handcuffed to a museum whose commitments, priorities and outlook are different can only continue to be greatly damaging. If the time for divorce has come, then so be it

[The Scorer]

It's been said on here a few times that we ought to write to people asking what the situation is at the IWM, and I agree.

 

However, what I don't know is what to say in the letter, as I really don't know enough about the subject. Would someone who knows more like to put together a draft letter which anyone who's interested can use and send to anyone relevant, please?

 

Thank you.

[Kitty55]

Like it - yes come on your brilliant letter writers - perhaps then more of us could send it to our local MP's and it would certainly look more of a united front.

 

You have to get enough people to cause at least a ripple and that will need a considerable number for anyone to take any notice of it.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

[Steven Broomfield]

51 minutes ago, The Scorer said:

It's been said on here a few times that we ought to write to people asking what the situation is at the IWM, and I agree.

 

Not in green biro, though.