IWM sales policy

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Derek Black said:

Thanks for the heads up, I see it was only instituted in 2012.

I'll have to pop in next time i'm down south in the north.

Cheers,
Derek.

 

   Derek-Its been around since the mid-60s.  Have a good go at Inter-Lib  up your way- National Library of Scotland effectively has to do some of BL jobs north of the border for the sake of PC.  But always check before visiting Boston Spa- closures are pandemic.And most (alas, not all) university libraries are much more open on admitting casual readers than they used to be.

    Literate folk- by that I mean those who read stuff other than paperback novels by Booker Prize failures- are getting scarce. Students won't budge from reading lists and textbooks-someone has to read the older  stuff!!

[Guest]

    And it's good to know that IWM has just received Archive Accreditation. Everything safe and sound in  Lambeth. No need to worry that they might,say,chuck lots of photographs away

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Just taken delivery of a couple more ex-IWM books - one of them, Merewether's 'The Indian Corps in France'. Amongst the many stamps, including that of the Reference Library Reading Room, is one that says 'Fire Replacement'. Now wether or not they've had a fire or just expecting one I couldn't say, but it does rather reinforce the reason for keeping a few duplicates.

[Guest]

DJC- Congratulations. Could any of the items you have purchased have come from the subsequent smaller sale of military stuff at Peacocks??? Just a thought.

   I had predicted in an earlier post that management techniques for getting rid of a library included messing around its service provision and access times-and then claiming a need to "rationalise" because the materials are "little used"  Oh dear, the selections form IWM Board Meetings make dismal reading.Are apparatchiks pre-programmed for this sort of behaviour or do they go on training courses to obtain "accreditation" in obfuscation.

    Yours Truly filed a FOI request with IWM yesterday re. book disposals- I will endeavour to post results if and when received. IWM has a most peculiar rider to its FOI section claiming that information provided is for personal use and subject to their having copyright-which is a proposition I have not encountered in any other public body. Also, a look at www.what-do-they-know.com- always entertaining - shows IWM does not have a good track record for response(OK, a lot of the requests were one round short of a magazine)

[David Filsell]

My understanding is that copyright prevents copy of the text directly. It cannot, as I understand It, prevent he facts being revealed and the story being told in different words. Despite the appalling state of their 'public affairs or publicity department, I also doubt that they would, in view of their secretive nature, seriously consider taking action which if publicised would show them in an extremely poor light. 

Edited 12 January , 2017 by David Filsell

[Guest]

On 12/01/2017 at 14:22, David Filsell said:

I also doubt that they would, in view of their secretive nature, seriously consider taking action which if publicised would show them in an extremely poor light. 

 

 Alas, it hasn't moderated their actions thus far. It dawned on me that the library decline is actually slightly worse than the figures show- the annual figures for library stock also,of course, include some accessions-whose numbers have to be factored in to give an even more dismal picture.

[Mike_H]

DJC

Your post 53 - Fire Replacement refers to something acquired as a replacement after the arson attack on the Dome reading room in 1968.

M

[Dust Jacket Collector]

46 minutes ago, Mike_H said:

DJC

Your post 53 - Fire Replacement refers to something acquired as a replacement after the arson attack on the Dome reading room in 1968.

M

Thanks Mike. Just goes to show that it's worth hanging on to a few duplicates, particularly for the rarer books.

Here's an article from today's Museum Association Journal misguidedly supporting the IWM actions.

http://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/11012017-ma-defends-iwm-disposal?dm_i=2VBX,DIX9,2VEIGY,1CZKT,1

[ss002d6252]

That reads like " it's not officially part of the collection so we can dispose of it more easily" as the justification.

 

Not sure the secrecy is required, it only  causes people to have suspicions that could likely be easy avoided.

 

Craig

[trajan]

48 minutes ago, Dust Jacket Collector said:

Thanks Mike. Just goes to show that it's worth hanging on to a few duplicates, particularly for the rarer books.

Here's an article from today's Museum Association Journal misguidedly supporting the IWM actions.

http://www.museumsassociation.org/museums-journal/news/11012017-ma-defends-iwm-disposal?dm_i=2VBX,DIX9,2VEIGY,1CZKT,1

 

Now, where have I previously heard something along the lines of: "The money made from the sales is ring-fenced in specific budgets to be used for new acquisitions to support our collections development plan.”? Perhaps, but the secrecy is what smacks so hard here...

Edited 12 January , 2017 by trajan

[Guest]

4 hours ago, trajan said:

The money made from the sales is ring-fenced in specific budgets to be used for new acquisitions to support our collections development plan.”? Perhaps, but the secrecy is what smacks so hard here...

 

     Translates as "Flog the books and spend the money on other things"- Its says "collections" development, not "library"

Also, ring-fencing is a farce- Yes, the money would be spent on collections-but the "normal" collections budget would be reduced to take account of it. But no untruths spoken.

   It's the same with speed camera fines, parking tickets,etc- must be spent on roads-means the normal roads budget is just reduced. If penalties were an addition to our normal roads budget, then our roads would not be covered in tarmac but gold plate.

    The defence of IWM in the Museums Journal is telling- IWM is run by museums people-none of the Trustees has a library or publishing connection. As I said before, now try telling the Director- a high-flyer in the museums world- to chuck out a few thousand museum exhibits as well. All are equal but some are more equal than others. I repeat, a professional librarian must run a library, not a museum manager. Again, I repeat-transfer the whole thing before the current Director destroys it- the only duplicate books she is interested in are the piles of populist tat at the multiple sales points around the theme park. Perhaps the IWM itself could be transferred to Chessington World of Adventure-its pretty much a natural kinship.

[David Filsell]

My first thought was that  they could spend it on buying another car bomb wrecked vehicle with absolutely no real relevance to British Military History. Then I remembered they've already got one!

[Guest]

David- My 16 year old Ford Fiesta is a close substitute if one is required.

[Kitty55]

Hi

Three years ago a friend of mine who is involved (fairly high up) in the Norfolk Library services said to me that when two of them went to the meeting in Norwich they had the suprise of their lives. At the meeting they were told that only one copy of any book would be stocked by Norfolk Libraries as a whole. They would have to share the use of any book between all the libraries in Norfolk!

This made me think at the time if there was any book I longed to read more than once, I'd best save up for it and buy it myself as library stocks and what they offer would be greatly reduced, especially as I'm like most of you on this site in liking the unusual or rarer items.

So the IWM selling off items I personally don't think it's something new - it's probably been going on for years just without anyone knowing about it - just like everything usually starts - the general public, those that actually pay for things, albeit in an indirect way, are nearly always the last to know.

 

Thinking on better things and something I can control - I'm going back to writing my book - another for someone to sell off in the end - but hopefully by then I won't be around and so it won't matter to me.

 

And as to cars (dare I say bangers), that's my hubby's hoby - he's got several - and used to race them! He just has to leave me alone to do my research whilst he makes a lot of noise banging and hammering amongst the frequent swearing but then he's two acres away in his army shed - so it doesn't matter to me.

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

 

Edited 13 January , 2017 by Kitty55

[Dust Jacket Collector]

22 minutes ago, Kitty55 said:

 

So the IWM selling off items I personally don't think it's something new - it's probably been going on for years just without anyone knowing about it - just like everything usually starts - the general public, those that actually pay for things, albeit in an indirect way, are nearly always the last to know.

 

You're right. Libraries have certainly been offloading their stock for many years now. I fear that many don't even keep any copies of the books they dump. Given the parlous state of library funding you'd think they'd try harder to get a decent price for them. Maybe the money just goes back to the local council. I remember a library sale in Hove back in the 1980's where the books were all 30p each. I had to bring the books home in bin-liners. Complete sets of Powell's 'Dance to the Music of Time' & Henry Williamson's 'Chronicle of Ancient Sunlight'. All 1sts in their jackets!

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Dust Jacket Collector said:

I had to bring the books home in bin-liners. Complete sets of Powell's 'Dance to the Music of Time' & Henry Williamson's 'Chronicle of Ancient Sunlight'. All 1sts in their jackets!

    

      But,alas, DJC, library stamps can hardly be described as "variants" or ignored- Reason why some books are expensive as 1sts is that so many libraries bought copies that non-lib. copies-collectors-are very scarce

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, Dust Jacket Collector said:

Actually I think having books stamped by the IWM might be considered an asset.

 

      Absolutely right-  they are an asset-  a public asset and should have remained so (except the ones you bought!)

[David Filsell]

I have often been asked why I have bought a certain book, postcard, Great War Christmas car or small memento of the war.

My answer is always the same - to save them from getting into the wrong hands.

I hope to get hem all catalogued (one day) but they will go once I'm boxed and up I have no idea, but for now they are safe, sound and looked after.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

We are the custodians now.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, SteveMarsdin said:

why don't they simply hand the whole lot over to the British Library

 

      Steve- the British Library is probably not the best idea- The BL Board would likely refuse it, if offered, on the basis that they had most of the stuff anyway and could not guarantee any form of separate existence for it. I'll bore you with some library stuff.

     IWM has a subject-dedicated library of some 200,000 books (give or take-round numbers). BL has- well, gazillions- but it will have much of what IWM has. As it is, BL probably has a great deal of material that is not in IWM (and if isolated out is probably a stronger subject-specific library than IWM) Similarly,BL Boston Spa probably has a goodly portion of IWM titles anyway.. A generation ago, when computing power began to take off, a joint project was set up to do a union catalogue of the holdings of 18th Century materials in libraries- unsurprisingly called Eighteenth Century Short Title Catalogue (ESTC). The core libraries catalogued were BL, Bodley at Oxford and Cambridge University Library. It was a surprise that there was only a 30% overlap in holdings between any 2 of those libraries.

   Thus, BL -if IWM were not there- would be the subject-specific library based in London- it is open to all (tickets are no longer exclusive), it is reference only and it has extensive collections of Great War material. That is, if IWM ceased to be as a library, its "local" customer base would not be too badly affected.

     Current policies are that devolution out of London might be pressed-depends on the outcry. But how to maintain its character???  Several other large subject-specific libraries have moved across the years-  the library of the Royal Commonwealth  Society (larger than IWM) was absorbed by Cambridge University Library but still has some separate identity within CUL. Similarly, the Womens Library at the London School of Economics took over what started as a womens library for the Fawcett Society a century ago-It has a separate existence within the LSE library-and LSE now really plugs it as an asset (Ironic,it turned the stuff down 30-odd years ago).The problem with these 2 libraries was the same as with IWM- a large heritage-significant asset which was too expensive a beastie for its current management and current use

   So what is wanted is a new home, where the library might be maintained AND EXTENDED- not just a dead collection swallowed up by a bigger library behemoth. I have suggested :

1)  The National Army Museum- well run, know what they are doing- BUT its remit would have to be changed and the addition of an IWM library would probably overtax its physical and financial resources-unless,if IWM parted with it, some element of funding for staff and acquisition went with it.

 

2)  KIng's College, London-  A serious war studies library and archive. KCL has already swallowed up one of the big old libraries in recent years-the library of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. It has a serious customer base for war studies and no user of IWM could claim that he  was inconvenienced 

 

3) U. Birmingham- making a bid to be the serious leader for Great War studies. Personally, my money would be on this one.

       A reading of what IWM has been doing and saying suggests to me,at least, that they are flagging up a take-over bid for the Library- the tone of its literature is,effectively, "yoo-hoo, here it is-and we don't want it anymore"-see who comes sniffing. The library will not be broken up- too many retired officers form a very effective lobby. But I think things will get worse before they get better.

 

     

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 14 January , 2017 by Guest
lack of spelling

[green_acorn]

I have watched this conversation with interest. Something similar happened at the AWM a number of years ago when they culled their "duplicate" pamphlets and manuals, the lot ending up in an industrial bin. Needless to say they heartily claimed they didn't bin anything, despite the widespread knowledge that one of the AWM employees saved many of the binned records and sold them to a militaria dealer. The problem was who knows how many culls have occurred over the years and more importantly, many of the archivists culling the documents wouldn't know the difference between version, or release one of a document and the last version, say version 9. Needless to say, it is often version 9 that remains, therefore, many young or inexperienced historians get things out of date/time/operational context by referencing the last version. 

 

Cheers,

Hendo

Edited 14 January , 2017 by green_acorn

[Dust Jacket Collector]

It's a shame this forum doesn't have a real world base - we could offer to take the whole lot. Maybe Broomers has a spare garage down in Hampshire?

[Steven Broomfield]

26 minutes ago, Dust Jacket Collector said:

It's a shame this forum doesn't have a real world base - we could offer to take the whole lot. Maybe Broomers has a spare garage down in Hampshire?

Well ... as I am retiring as a PAO, my garage will be devoid of all the poppy appeal stuff, xo I could tun it past Mrs B. As long as I can convince her no money (well, none of my money) is changing hands.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

5 minutes ago, Steven Broomfield said:

Well ... as I am retiring as a PAO, my garage will be devoid of all the poppy appeal stuff, xo I could tun it past Mrs B. As long as I can convince her no money (well, none of my money) is changing hands.

You could sell off the duplicates to fund it. No, wait, that's already happened!

[Guest]

    But surely  the Main Library at Chateau Broomfield is already larger than that of IWM?  I suspect Mrs. B. may have muttered such from time to time....  given the traditional view of hubby's book collection by the average spouse