IWM sales policy

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Thanks GUEST. I believe the Munitions journal was restricted to in-house, only going to the upper echelons of management, so relatively scarce in the public domain. I'm surprised they published such a thing at all given the level of detail it gives on shell manufacture. Rather useful to the enemy I'd have thought.

It's good that the BL is now so accessible.

[Guest]

DJC-Let's not knock all libraries-  BL at Boston Spa does good work and ought to be promoted as it must be of utility to many researchers on this Forum. Whether BL or not, always worth asking in your local main library if a particular book can be got on ILL. Deserves a bit of publicity

 

   Basic trouble with IWM is that the criteria in the modern world for running a museum are different to those for running a library. The two nowadays just do not mix-and IWM is run by a museums expert.I suspect she would not be so cavalier with book disposals if it were suggested that many artefacts could be got rid of..... I am sure W.H.Peacock would oblige

[David Filsell]

The journo concerned has joined the forum. I have suggested to him that there have been a number of good stories on the forum - not least the CWGC Kipling saga. At least the disposal piece forced the IWM to react as I had hoped. It does seem to have breached its responsibilities, as as has been suggested on this thread.

I am neither great nor good, but I have a yen to find out just what it takes to become a trustee of the place!!! Any thoughts?

Regards

David

[Guest]

IWM currently has a vacancy on the Board for an Army Trustee and Deputy Chair.

Members of the Board have corporate responsibility for the general management and control of the museum, subject to the terms set out in the Imperial War Museum Acts (1920 and 1955), subsequent amending legislation and other governing documents. It is their responsibility also to ensure that the museum complies with any statutory or administrative requirements for the use of public funds.

Trustees are appointed in accordance with the process regulated by the Commissioner for Public Appointments. Further details of this particular vacancy and how to apply can be found on theCabinet Office public appointments pages. 

 

    This roughly translates as "Oi,pleb-don't even think about it"

[yperman]

On ‎02‎/‎01‎/‎2017 at 07:59, kallag said:

To my horror, the room was in the process of being emptied out.....all the files of photographs gone and not accessible to the public any more. Some files evidently destined for Duxford.

 

I was told that anything you want now will have to be sourced and ordered via their Website. Funding of staff and keeping the place going appears to have become a financial problem.

The family of a deceased RNAS Coastal air ship crewman asked me to offer the IWM  some private photos he had taken from the air  of HM submarine E34 at sea  and of other events in the channel. The IWM merely said they weren't interested. There is now a real risk that these quite rare images will be lost for good when his descendants pass away.

[David Filsell]

GUEST,

Thanks for that, as a pleb, I feel fully unqualified for the positions under the terms you state. Thus,  I think under the circumstance I am an ideal candidate for the post.

Regards

David

[Guest]

1 hour ago, yperman said:

The IWM merely said they weren't interested.

  

     Very worrying indeed. This seems to be absolutely contrary to their supposed collections policy in all the Acts and protocols relating to IWM across the years. There are still large amounts of original material out there (Oh,alright-a lot of it clutched in the tiny hands of Forum members)

    As a semi-retired bookseller, our business has always had a policy of no-profit and place with the right institutional home on manuscript items and original images. We used to get asked about such things quite often in the same sort of situation you are in.

   My advice would be to get the family to place with another institution-either by deposit or copying. The Peter Liddle Archive at Leeds comes to mind foremost but also,as it is RNAS, then the Royal Navy has some good homes.

  Please let me know how this gets on- I was a bookseller because I liked History- I want to see stuff go to its right home

[Guest]

On 09/01/2017 at 09:27, David Filsell said:

GUEST,

   

Thanks for that, as a pleb, I feel fully unqualified for the positions under the terms you state. Thus,  I think under the circumstance I am an ideal candidate for the post.

Regards

David

 

      David- I suggest you get the DVD of the last film of Peter Sellers -"Being There" -and study it closely. It shows there is no limit to how far you can go without any abilities whatsoever. As is evidenced by....  No, that Moderator taser still scares me-anyway, the list would be too long

 

           Best wishes

                    Mike

[yperman]

  

 

  Please let me know how this gets on- I was a bookseller because I liked History- I want to see stuff go to its right home

I will. Sadly the lady who owns the photo album has just lost, in the last month or so, both her parents and now is not a good time. In due course I will start with the RN Submarine Museum at Gosport or your suggestions.

[Guest]

 Gosport - a good home- As a Plymothian, I am grateful you avoided mentioning the "P" word- a place with some boats somewhere near Gosport.

   Might I also suggest taking scans of the photographs as a back-up, if not already done. Running old pics. through scanning often spruces them up-restoring tone where the originals have faded. Most "Boots" have the facility. Putting blackness and tone back, or changing the size  upwards can have a dramatic impact on the pics. And as with all family pics-put the details ,as much as you cn, on the back- It is rather distressing to see so many pics. on Ebay of men of the Great War, now unknown and undientifiable as the studio portraits of them in uniform in 1914 onwards do not have details on the back

[David Filsell]

MrV

Strangely I was not called to audition for that role - it would have been a breeze. Walking into a trusteeship at the IWM should be a piece of cake.

Or perhaps not!

Regards

David  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kitty55]

Hi

Nothing like this is new to me as a local historian who has been doing it for almost 50 years and has helped, albeit in a voluntary capacity, in Museums, Schools and Libraries. Several years ago (well more than that now, I guess - in the 70's) Norwich Library which housed most of the rarer books/records/deeds etc of Norfolk (it was also Norfolk's archive at the time) burnt down and although to this day the services say nothing is missing I can prove them wrong; I have several notes that don't seem to be available any more and they are  quite important ones too.

That's the trouble with history most people will say 'don't live in the past just live for now'. I keep trying to explain that by looking at the past, if only for a few minutes each day you can save yourself hours in the future - mainly because having read about how things happened especially if they went wrong then you know not to do it again.

Having found it and saved the information, then the trick is to remember where you put it, for as you get older, one's memory gets worse - and that can waste time - lots of it -

which reminds me WHERE WAS IT?????

 

I'm just glad I'm not the only one worried about libraries, museums, archives - OUR HISTORY - whatever type you like it's all important.  A local history book is no good without the people who make the place otherwise it's just bricks and mortar or the modern equivalent and can get very mundane and boring.

 

And no it's not my brain I've lost  - well not yet - It might try to go down the shower plug hole tomorrow though - but hopefully I'll catch it again like this morning.

 

Sorry, just the mood I'm in, having been searching all day and evening for one soldier on all online sites, without any luck. Surely some of you know that feeling?

 

thanks and take care, Kitty

[Guest]

   Kitty- You are right that some of the materials lost with the Norfolk and Norwich Library fire could not be replaced-as they were one-off items anyway- any look at some of the association copies and home- produced stuff associated with Walter Rye would show that.

   If you are stuck on an individual (as happens with all of us), then put up an appeal for info. on this Forum.Members are invariably helpful. Hat size and rifle serial number may take a while but normal service details usually emerge- found by those who have little ways of interrogating the online systems in different ways.

 

          Good luck.

              Mike

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[David Filsell]

It is quite true that many libraries and organisations have totally forgotten their roll and responsibilities, indeed my collection has enefited from their foolishness. But the fact is that when an organisation like the IWM flogs off irreplaceable 'Crown Jewels' without apparently seeking safe hands to place them in, as I believe they appear to Be bound to do, it is a huge breach of responsibility. We should all be both very angry and very about the apparent failure of the custodians of our military history.

[charlie962]

Anyone know any of these?  

 

Maybe some interesting reflections in the Board Minutes?

 

    just an Example Dec 2015

 

 

and do I read this correctly?

Edited 10 January , 2017 by charlie962

[charlie962]

This from Dec 2014 minutes- what is being hidden by exemption?

[kallag]

Goodness charlie962, well done. Certainly makes for interesting reading.

 

Would be useful to know exactly what is meant by "  Referring in particular to the photographic disposals Ms Lees reminded Trustees that the preferred method of disposal would be by gift rather than by destruction "

[ss002d6252]

Nice to see that exemption has been claimed under S36 - "Prejudice to effective conduct of public affairs." http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/36/section/36

Craig

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Here is an extract from the museums acquisitions and disposals policy :-

23 Disposal by gift or sale

23.1 Once a decision to dispose of material in the Collection has been taken, priority will be

given to retaining it within the public domain, unless it is to be destroyed. It will

therefore be offered in the first instance, by gift or sale, directly to other Accredited

museums likely to be interested in its acquisition.

23.2 If the material is not acquired by any Accredited museums to which it was offered

directly as a gift or for sale, then the Museum community at large will be advised of the

intention to dispose of the material, normally through an announcement in the

Museums Association’s Museums Journal or Find an Object website, and in other

specialist journals where appropriate.

[Kitty55]

The way I look at it now having seen so much of this in many aspects throughout my life is -

I try to collect things that I know to be relevant to my interests i.e. Dereham's local history, handicrafts etc. Then I research about it, do some shows via PowerPoint locally to see if any locals have more to add to it, and finally now I'm writting books about it in much more detail. This includes gossip, local papers, photographs, tape recordings from 20 - 40 years ago of people I interviewed regarding certain things, post cards etc. That way at least when I'm no longer here the information should be available to more than just me alone. Added to this all the books, post cards, etc I've collected can always be sold by the family should they need to be without me having to think anything of it. Some one some where will have a copy of my book just as I have at present i.e. Blomfield; Crick's histories, Walter Rye, Jessopp,  etc. Not that mind will be equal to theirs - on a more local level I treasure my Terry Davy and Boston & Puddy's Dereham Books just as much even if not so well known.

Guess we each have to do what we can - if only because we care. So if you have a passion write about it and get it out there - it seems to be the only way today - there's always someone out there collecting info it - if it's WWI why not post it on here for all to see.

 

thanks and take, Kitty

[The Scorer]

Possibly off topic, I was surprised to see the name of Paul Potts CBE as a Board Member.

 

However, he's not the Welsh tenor of the same name, but this chap:

 

Paul Potts CBE Tutor, The Editorial Centre Ltd.

Age	Total Calculated Compensation	This person is connected to 2 Board Members in 2 different organizations across 5 different industries. See Board Relationships
--	--

Background

Mr. Paul Potts, CBE, serves as Tutor at The Editorial Centre Ltd. Mr. Potts serves as Director at CNW Group Ltd. He serves as Non-Executive Director at Channel Four Television Corporation. He previously served as Former Group Chief Executive at PA Group Limited. He previously served as Executive Chairman of PA Group at MeteoGroup Nederland B.V.

Corporate Headquarters Hanover House St Leonards-on-Sea, East Sussex TN38 ODX United Kingdom   Phone: 44 1424 435 991 Fax: 44 1424 445 547 Board Members Memberships Director CNW Group Ltd. 2012-Present Non-Executive Director Channel Four Television Corporation I did wonder for a while, though!

[Kitty55]

And to Mike - going back before that above - govt stuff - had enough when wroking - don't want more now - sorry.

 

Hi Mike

Oh I know folks on here are very helpful I'm just getting ready with requests that I've got stuck on - I'm just checking through them once more (mainly online sites to ensure I've got the latest) before I start asking for photos, info etc. I'm not lazy I've spent the last 10 years or so looking for these soldiers, out of over 2,000 all involved with Dereham town somehow during the First World War. It is normally because the soldiers were unusual to say the least and quite a few involve those who were stationed in either this country or overseas and in the ASC, RE etc. not necessarily in regular Regiments (if there was such a thing once the war had started - what with the in fills as I've ended up calling them). Many are a relation that was somewhere else to the rest (i,e, Canada, Australia etc.) and then found their way back to the family but with massive service gaps in between,  that neither the family nor myself can find out.

 

So HERE'S THE WARNING - give me roughly a month and I'll start by entering just a few each time, under the heading Dereham in the soldier section.

[David Filsell]

 

The only two I have met are Kizley and Strachan and strangely both were absolutely right in their opinions!

As for the others I havn't  much of a clue. The warning for trustees not to react lobbying is interesting - hardly a transparent or publicly aware attitude by an organisation funded by tax payers yet aware that Lees knew their would be a negative reaction. All very hole in the wall.

Edited 10 January , 2017 by David Filsell

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ss002d6252 said:

Nice to see that exemption has been claimed under S36 - "Prejudice to effective conduct of public affairs." http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2000/36/section/36

 

      This is a bad business. Well done Charlie 962 for the leg-work on this. So let's see- A public body controlled by Trustees, appointed by the Cabinet Office in accord with public sector appointments rules, hold board meetings of which the Minutes can be suppressed by their own decision- as,of course, it is the institution being grilled under FOI that decides that S.36 applies to itself. No conflict of interest there then..

    Could anyone give details of this FOI request- made by whom?  There is no way that Board minutes relating to the disposal of major and unique public assets can be allowed to be shielded by s.36-It's an abuse. Referral to ICO seems a way forward.There are many proper exemptions in the FOI- but it cannot be allowed to become the Protection of Apparatchik Reputation Act.

 2) Also worrying is the mention of destruction. I mentioned in an earlier post that much good material across the years has been quietly put in the landfill,skip or furnace. WE have assumed that books have been sold off-  but now we have to ask-how many have been destroyed?

 

       As a matter of interest, does any Forum member know of any IWM materials-books particularly- turning up recently in any other library?  

 

    

[Derek Black]

The popular image of BL as the hard-to-get-into wholly reference collection  in London is wholly wrong- the BL at Boston Spa is HUGE. (For those folk who live up north, it also has a walk-in reading room at Boston Spa which is under-used and a treasure)

Thanks for the heads up, I see it was only instituted in 2012.

I'll have to pop in next time i'm down south in the north.

Cheers,
Derek.