Blakeley Posted 29 December , 2016 Share Posted 29 December , 2016 (edited) I realize this is a very long shot indeed but does anyone recognize the officer in this photograph? I know it was taken outside Buckingham Palace and I'm pretty sure the lieutenant, who is wearing the ribbon of the Military Cross, is flanked by his father and possibly his wife or sister. The image, which measures 20 x 15 inches, has been professionally retouched, which suggests that it might have been reproduced in a newspaper or magazine. It’s in a heavy wooden frame that appears to be WW1 vintage. It was purchased in Toronto in December 2016, so perhaps there was or is a link to Canada... Edited 30 December , 2016 by Blakeley Added second image. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullerTurner Posted 29 December , 2016 Share Posted 29 December , 2016 I defer to those with greater visual acuity but those look like Canadian maple leafs on the collar-dogs. AND the cap badge doesn't look like a British regiment - although I am prepared to be gainsaid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakeley Posted 29 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2016 (edited) 31 minutes ago, BullerTurner said: I defer to those with greater visual acuity but those look like Canadian maple leafs on the collar-dogs. AND the cap badge doesn't look like a British regiment - although I am prepared to be gainsaid. I think you might be on to something... I've just posted another photograph, which is a bit clearer. Thank you! Edited 29 December , 2016 by Blakeley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 29 December , 2016 Share Posted 29 December , 2016 Blackened buttons is usually an indication of a Rifles Regiment, presumably applied to Canadian units? He's holding what looks to be more of a walking stick, possibly an indication of recovering from leg wound... Presence of Mum and Dad (?) indicates a UK born chap enlisting in Canada....? (unless it's taken after Nov 1918 when sea travel became less dangerous) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 29 December , 2016 Share Posted 29 December , 2016 Hi All Flanked by his father and sister? as the OP, surely not his mum. If he is Canadian then he will be one of 76 who, according to another site, have been awarded the MC, 1st and 2nd WWs. Quite a number can be eliminated and a lot have photographs. Kept me busy for a while! Regards Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevinBattle Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 Ooops! Yes, more like a sister than a Mum! Specsavers appointment needed! Father and sister make it even more likely to be a UK based family with son(s) who went to Canada..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakeley Posted 30 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2016 3 hours ago, The Inspector said: Hi All Flanked by his father and sister? as the OP, surely not his mum. If he is Canadian then he will be one of 76 who, according to another site, have been awarded the MC, 1st and 2nd WWs. Quite a number can be eliminated and a lot have photographs. Kept me busy for a while! Regards Barry Is there a list of the 76 names on the other site? A link to it would be much appreciated... Thanks! Blakeley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 7 hours ago, The Inspector said: Hi All Flanked by his father and sister? as the OP, surely not his mum. If he is Canadian then he will be one of 76 who, according to another site, have been awarded the MC, 1st and 2nd WWs. Quite a number can be eliminated and a lot have photographs. Kept me busy for a while! Regards Barry Not sure what you mean - surely more than 76 Canadians were awarded MCs; could you link to the 'other site'? And the walking stick referred to elsewhere is possibly just a walking stick - no need for it to have any relevance: commonly carried by officers. Nice pair of lorgnettes, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 (edited) It might be worth waiting to see if a few more posts appear, then for one of us who is also a member of the Canadian Expeditionary Force Study Group to post a cross- reference to this thread. (Photos can't be included in posts.) If a shortlist of possible names evolves the relevant attestation papers can be checked out here Some of these list visual defects, but that's not to say that if a man was slightly short-sighted it would always be recorded. A large proportion of the CEF originally came from Britain, and the attestation papers show place of birth. The Canadian service records are gradually being digitised; last time I checked they'd got up to "K". There's also a search facility for Canadian medal-winners, but obviously one needs names to use it. A very brief Google failed to produce a list of Canadian MC winners, but it might be worth a more diligent attempt. Moonraker Edited 30 December , 2016 by Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 10 hours ago, The Inspector said: Hi All Flanked by his father and sister? as the OP, surely not his mum. If he is Canadian then he will be one of 76 who, according to another site, have been awarded the MC, 1st and 2nd WWs. Quite a number can be eliminated and a lot have photographs. Kept me busy for a while! Regards Barry Dunno if "another site" merely lists a few names that it's assembled, but 3,727 MCs have gone to Canadians, with 324 first bars and 18 second bars.Nearly all of these would have been in the two world wars: Veteran Affairs Canada Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 (edited) Hi All Obviously the other 'pedia' site has got it all wrong, but there is a list of names and histories. Kevin, I think you may be right re UK based relatives. Regards Barry Edited 30 December , 2016 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragoon Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 (edited) Canadian Railway Troops? Just looking at the shape etc, 10th I reakon? Chris Edited 30 December , 2016 by Dragoon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 Ten MCs were awarded to Canadian railway troops during the war Download Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 Fred Banting ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 Sir Frederick Banting remains the youngest man to win the Nobel prize for medicine for use of insulin to treat diabetes. Many images of him on web so you can judge for yourselves. He was born in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 (edited) And had an MC, and a strong Toronto connection, and wore lightweight specs like that. The "black buttons" look more like leather buttons to me, and he is seen wearing these in other images . . . . . . only prob is that the badge in the OP doesn't look like CAMC. But still . . . . . Edited 30 December , 2016 by Stoppage Drill Leather button reference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark1959 Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 His father was still alive and he did have a sister Esther also alive at the time. Not married until later. His sister was at the time. In the not convinced team at the moment.. Anyway of checking he got his MC at Buck House? What was his rank at the time? Of course the older man and younger woman might not be related Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 Frederick Banting. Photo for comparison. However he won his MC only in late September 1918 and was by that time a captain. Also the original picture I'd say was not the award of an MC but an existing recipient as wearing the ribbon and not the medal. The picture being taken at Buckingham Palace may indicate this person was going to receive another award. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 This is from the Extensive Library Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 1 hour ago, Steven Broomfield said: This is from the Extensive Library Same sort of specs. Top of right ear prominent in both cases. Shape of top lip directly below filtrum is identical . . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoppage Drill Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 1 hour ago, david murdoch said: Frederick Banting. Photo for comparison. However he won his MC only in late September 1918 and was by that time a captain. Also the original picture I'd say was not the award of an MC but an existing recipient as wearing the ribbon and not the medal. The picture being taken at Buckingham Palace may indicate this person was going to receive another award. Wearing those leather buttons in this image ? (And CAMC badges.) Don't think he was off for another award as there are no attachment points on his chest. However, could be that he had already received the ribbon to the MC and was going to the Palace to get the insignia ? Not unusual for this to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david murdoch Posted 30 December , 2016 Share Posted 30 December , 2016 43 minutes ago, Stoppage Drill said: Wearing those leather buttons in this image ? (And CAMC badges.) Don't think he was off for another award as there are no attachment points on his chest. However, could be that he had already received the ribbon to the MC and was going to the Palace to get the insignia ? Not unusual for this to happen. Valid point. His medal citation card is dated February 1919 so five months after the action he earned it. No other decorations mentioned for that period. The KBE was awarded in 1934. So the war was ended by the time he received his decoration which would explain family being able to come over. Also he had been wounded some months earlier which may also account for the walking stick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 31 December , 2016 Share Posted 31 December , 2016 And if his Captaincy was a Temporary thing, it might well be that he'd reverted to a Substantive rank of Lieutenant by the time he received his gong. As Mr Drill says, very common to put the ribbon up well before receiving the medal. Certainly gets my vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonraker Posted 31 December , 2016 Share Posted 31 December , 2016 Attestation papers and, happily, service record here (I say "happily" because being a "B" his service record has been digitised as part of a gradual exercise that's more or less reached the alphabetical halfway point.) One entry says he was awarded the MC on February 15, 1919. Cue for debate on whether that was the date the MC was announced or presented or, perhaps even when the entry was made. Stoppage's identification is to be applauded, though I myself don't see a complete likeness. But I concede that only a very small number of Canadian officers who wore lorgnettes won the MC.. Moonraker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Inspector Posted 31 December , 2016 Share Posted 31 December , 2016 (edited) Hi All I reckon it's him, well done Stoppage Drill. Additional to above... He won the MC for his actions on 28th September, 1918, just outside Haynecourt, France. Severely wounded in his right arm. Regards Barry Arrived on SS Belgic, Halifax, Nova Scotia on 1 March 1919 from Liverpool. Capt.Frederick G. Banting, Assistant Medical Officer. Esther, sister is seated on the left. This is the Banting family. Edited 31 December , 2016 by The Inspector Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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