Gareth Davies Posted 24 December , 2016 Share Posted 24 December , 2016 Can anyone tell me where this is? I have nothing else to go on other than the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 24 December , 2016 Share Posted 24 December , 2016 Can you zoom in on a name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 24 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 December , 2016 Sadly not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 24 December , 2016 Share Posted 24 December , 2016 The matelots are wearing white cap covers which (I think) were used only in warmer climes up to modern times, so is Gallipoli a possibility? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 24 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 24 December , 2016 It is a possibility if it was taken in 1923 (ish). Is that possible or would the IWGC have done their good work by then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knotty Posted 24 December , 2016 Share Posted 24 December , 2016 (edited) If it is the Gallipoli scenario, the picture shows to the right of the matelots a couple of headstones that look like a propeller, as far as I can tell only two cemeteries in the Turkish/Gallipoli area hold RFC/RAF burials namely Haidar Pasha Cemetery, and the Lancashire Landing Cemetery. John Edited 25 December , 2016 by Knotty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitchener's Bugle Posted 25 December , 2016 Share Posted 25 December , 2016 8 hours ago, Gareth Davies said: It is a possibility if it was taken in 1923 (ish). Is that possible or would the IWGC have done their good work by then? This is a possibility Gareth as the work of the IWGC was only all completed (with the exception of the New Zealand memorial) by 1925. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 25 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 25 December , 2016 Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 25 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 25 December , 2016 Lancashire Landing is looking probable. The name in Front of the RH sailor looks like Foster and there is a Foster buried in Row L. The RNAS at LL are in Row K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 December , 2016 Share Posted 25 December , 2016 15 hours ago, Knotty said: If it is the Gallipoli scenario, the picture shows to the right of the matelots a couple of headstones that look like a propellor, as far as I can tell only two cemeteries in the Turkish/Gallipoli area hold RFC/RAF burials namely Haidar Pasha Cemetery, and the Lancashire Landing Cemetery. And given the background and the number of graves Haidar Pasha it is not (unless photoshopped!) 44 minutes ago, Gareth Davies said: Lancashire Landing is looking probable. The name in Front of the RH sailor looks like Foster and there is a Foster buried in Row L. The RNAS at LL are in Row K. Well done that man! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 25 December , 2016 Share Posted 25 December , 2016 (edited) Agree with Lancashire Landing Cemetery for all the reasons given. Modern pictures show the wider landscape as gently sloping. Another clue is that the foreground appears to be shell pitted-which would also suggest a cemetery where there had been immediate fighting nearby- Familiar pock marking to Verdun-Modern manicuring makes us forget that the WGC did their wonderful work in dreadful conditions- The contrast between a WGC cemetery -immaculate- and a surrounding area still visibly damaged by the ravages of war must have been all the more striking in the 1920s A further clue- there are 2 propeller memorials together-but there may be more to the left in the photograph (I will leave the technocrats to enlarge and see) None of the air casualties in Haidar are together. Lancashire Landing has only 5 air graves- one from RNAS but the other 4 brought in on concentration from Imbros- and listed at Lancashire as being together. (But if there are not 4 propeller memorials, then its not Lancashire Landing-magnifying glasses out, gentlemen,please) Edited 25 December , 2016 by Guest further information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 December , 2016 Share Posted 26 December , 2016 There again- if there are only 2 propeller memorials together, then it could not be Lancashire- How about East Mudros? Has 24 airmen- including one pair together Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 26 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2016 I's a possibility. The name on one of the crosses looks like Foster and there is a Foster at EM but I can't match his grave location to the 2 airmen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 December , 2016 Share Posted 26 December , 2016 (edited) Bigger magnifying glass? The problem with 2 airmen is that WGC doesnt list the unknowns, so it could well be another cemetery in Turkey/Greece as CWGC site may not help but hinder. Also possible that this cemetery was later concentrated Any chance of another name? Edited 26 December , 2016 by Guest fogot something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 26 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2016 Sadly my magnifying glass is too small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 December , 2016 Share Posted 26 December , 2016 Then away to the local hardware store and purchase one immediately!! So the words from passers-by-"My what a big one" echo along your local High Street!! Seriously, on the basis that Jolly Jack doe not wander far in full uniform, then somewhere near the sea is not at Einstein levels of deduction- Beginning to think Salonika may be a poss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 26 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2016 The photo is from the collection of someone who served at Gallipoli and went back there in 1921, and who never went to Salonika. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 December , 2016 Share Posted 26 December , 2016 The RNAS obviously had airmen in the Dardanelles as well as ground crew and the RNAS armoured Car Sqn. There was also the RN contingents and the RND so the RN connection is strong. Just looking at RNAS personnel, some 12 cemeteries in the Dardanelles include RNAS men, although most are Petty Officer mechanics. Not sure if any flew as observers, however there are some pilots. Not sure if the propellor 'cross' was only reserved for pilots, but this is a line worth pursuing. I recall all a crash at Kephalos where one pilot tragically died. Recorded in Samson's Fight and Flights. Worth exploring any history of the RNAS. If I find anything I will revert. MG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 December , 2016 Share Posted 26 December , 2016 (edited) That extra info may make a difference- IF-an only if- the "Taylor" is likely to be one of the graves that Jolly Jack is looking at- If so, then it should be one of the cemeteries at Helles- there are no other RN Taylors in any other Turkish cemetery other than those at Helles. And if 1921-then we cant be sure that it wasnt a cemetery subsequently concentrated-CWGC is a little vague on dates of concentration, other than "after armistice" On the other hand the background landscape looks a little too tidy for ground that has been fought over- strenthens Mudros Just a thought- if the pic. is from someone at Gallipoli-do we know which ship he was on?-if,so,whether any casualties at Gallipoli- then on to the right cemetery Edited 26 December , 2016 by Guest second thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 December , 2016 Share Posted 26 December , 2016 (edited) Capt Collet RNAS died in a crash when the RNAS Squadron was at either Kephalos or Imbros (Samson is unclear). I think that the graves on the outlying islands were few in number and were relocated to Lancashire Landing when the IWGC consolidated the graves. It is s a strong lead given the propellers. Collet definitely died on an outlying island but is now at Lancashire Landing. It it could well be Lancashire landing shortly after graves were consolidated, some time in the early 1920s. Samson revisited in 1919. The IWM has some photos of the early graves which might be worth exploring. MG Edited 26 December , 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptage Posted 26 December , 2016 Share Posted 26 December , 2016 (edited) You are correct that it is Lancashire Landing Cemetery. Proof? The name Foster (well spotted that man) gives it away, along with the cross in between of the two sailors which states in the largest letters visible "BRITISH SEAMAN" Our man, Corporal Herbert Charles Foster of the RMLI, is buried in plot L.78. The unknown BS is buried in plot L.73 (also UBS in L74 and L83) The two propellors behind are plots K.83 and K.85, offset with the row in front due to the start of the rows being uneven (as can be seen on the map of the Cemetery on CWGC). K.83 is Flight Lieutenant Victor Nicholson of the RNAS (previously mentioned here) was the brother of Rear-Admiral (later to be) Admiral Stuart Nicholson in the Dardanelles K.85 is Midshipman Edward Rupert Snow of the Royal Navy (who ATTENDED the RNAS!!!!!!) Hence the propellor?!?!?!? Served on HMS Ark Royal and was the son of Colonel Edmund Bryhouse Snow (of RMLI). Probably had enough clout to get his son in the air. The 97 graves in Row K and graves 31 to 83 in Row L were brought in after the Armistice from the following Aegean islands cemeteries:- KEPHALOS BRITISH CEMETERY, on the island of Imbros (Imbroz), was 640 metres inland from Kephalos Pier. There were buried in it 84 British, Australian and New Zealand sailors and soldiers, three Greeks, and one German prisoner. KUSU BAY CEMETERY, on the island of Imbros (Imbroz), contained the graves of 45 officers and men (14 of them unidentified) of the monitors Raglan and M28, which were sunk by the German battle cruiser Goeben and cruiser Breslau as they attempted to break out into the Mediterranean from the Black Sea on 20 January 1918 . PANAGHIA CHURCHYARD, on the island of Imbros (Imbroz), contained the graves of one officer and five men from the monitors and four airmen of the 62nd Wing, Royal Air Force. PARASKEVI CEMETERY, near the South-West shore of the island of Tenedos (Bozcaada), contained the graves of four sailors, one soldier and one marine. Edited 26 December , 2016 by temptage add link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gareth Davies Posted 26 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 26 December , 2016 That's great, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 26 December , 2016 Share Posted 26 December , 2016 (edited) 24 minutes ago, temptage said: You are correct that it is Lancashire Landing Cemetery. Proof? The name Foster (well spotted that man) gives it away, along with the cross in between of the two sailors which states in the largest letters visible "BRITISH SEAMAN" Our man, Corporal Herbert Charles Foster of the RMLI, is buried in plot L.78. The unknown BS is buried in plot L.73 (also UBS in L74 and L83) The two propellors behind are plots K.83 and K.85, offset with the row in front due to the start of the rows being uneven (as can be seen on the map of the Cemetery on CWGC). K.83 is Flight Lieutenant Victor Nicholson of the RNAS (previously mentioned here) was the brother of Rear-Admiral (later to be) Admiral Stuart Nicholson in the Dardanelles K.85 is Midshipman ER Snow of the Royal Navy (who ATTENDED the RNAS!!!!!!) Hence the propellor?!?!?!? I don't doubt that you are correct but curious to understand the methodology. I cant read Foster from the photo. Edited. I see the methodology. counting backk from the end of the Lettered rows... good detective work. Impressive. MG Edit. Here is the plan which would support the idea of the locations; Edited 26 December , 2016 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptage Posted 26 December , 2016 Share Posted 26 December , 2016 I presume he will have been an Observer, maybe even a Pilot. Having the pedigree that he had, being the son of Colonel Edmund Bryhouse Snow (of RMLI), would have probably had its advantages. There is nobody else in the Lancashire Landing Cemetery with the same date of death, although his was one of the bodies reinterred after the Armistice. Maybe he was a solo Pilot or an Observer and the pilots body not recovered. The Observer in Nicholson's plane was also a Midshipman, but from the RNR instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
temptage Posted 26 December , 2016 Share Posted 26 December , 2016 Turns out he was a Pilot.......the reason for the Propellor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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