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Remembered Today:

Medal Collectors


kevinseddon

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8 hours ago, GWF1967 said:

Would it follow that the plaque would bear the same name as the headstone/monument/CWGC listing; all as per family wishes?   

 

A cautionary tale... I have a relative through marriage who is named on his marriage certificate and death certificate as George William Frederick Davis; who is named on his CWGC headstone as F.W.G Davis; and who is named on his plaque as William Frederick George Davis... All the same person...

 

Trajan

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9 hours ago, Medaler said:

 

Wouldn't it be smashing if all the application forms for Plaques magically "turned up" somewhere?

 

 

This is part of AIF form BRPF 37 (b) showing that memorial plaques are to be inscribed with the name which the deceased served and died under. No doubt a few next of kin wishes slipped through but would there be any official difference around the Commonwealth back in the early 1920s or was it only Australia being strict about the naming?

 

Sorry if it's a bit small.

Plaque naming.jpg

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1 hour ago, Tony N said:

This is part of AIF form BRPF 37 (b) showing that memorial plaques are to be inscribed with the name which the deceased served and died under. No doubt a few next of kin wishes slipped through but would there be any official difference around the Commonwealth back in the early 1920s or was it only Australia being strict about the naming?

 

That's good to have TonyN. In the case of my relative-by-marriage, referred to above,  post 76, I don't think his service papers have survived so I am uncertain what series of initials he used when he joined and served. Even so, odd that the CWCC headstone has his initials one way and the plaque another - he was with GB forces by the way. As I understand it, the CWGC headstone texts and naming theron were those approved by the family, but I'll be happy to be corrected on that.

 

Julian

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3 hours ago, trajan said:

 

A cautionary tale... I have a relative through marriage who is named on his marriage certificate and death certificate as George William Frederick Davis; who is named on his CWGC headstone as F.W.G Davis; and who is named on his plaque as William Frederick George Davis... All the same person...

 

Trajan

Noted; Thanks. 

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3 hours ago, trajan said:

 

That's good to have TonyN. In the case of my relative-by-marriage, referred to above,  post 76, I don't think his service papers have survived so I am uncertain what series of initials he used when he joined and served. Even so, odd that the CWCC headstone has his initials one way and the plaque another - he was with GB forces by the way. As I understand it, the CWGC headstone texts and naming theron were those approved by the family, but I'll be happy to be corrected on that.

 

Julian

Well, I've got a pair, plaque and scroll all to a Welshman named to Albert Evans as per his MIC as well as the cardboard tube used to send the scroll to his wife so I know which of the many men with the same name he actually was. According to CWGC grave registration documents he is Benjamin Albert Evans, obviously his full name but no doubt he served as plain Albert Evans.

 

Tony

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  • 1 year later...

Hi there,

 

I'm new to this forum, but thought I would add to this thread as it my query seems on topic. Please let me know if any of you think there is a better place to post.

 

My great-grandfather's, Ernest Stacey's, and great uncle's, Walter Stacey's, medals were auctioned through Lockdales in January.  Unfortunately, I was not aware that they were in the sale, otherwise I would have bid on them. I am hoping that someone on here either bought them, or perhaps knows who did. I have been trying to trace them for a long time, and was gutted that I missed them when they were available. I would be delighted to pay for them, and have no qualms about the collector receiving a profit on them for their troubles, so that they can replace the medals in their collection. The medals me a lot to me and my side of the family. The Lockdales listing is here:

 

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/lockdales/catalogue-id-lo10092/lot-ed297e73-7c72-41cb-921c-a85100a6b2e2

 

Thank you to to all,

 

Matthew.

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Hi Matthew welcome to the forum.

 

I would start a new topic, as your reply to this thread possibly won’t attract enough attention.  Put names and Regiment in the title to get peoples notice.

Have you tried contacting Lockdales, some auctioneers will pass on a note to the buyer.

Also join the British Medal Forum and ask on there.  There is quite a bit of cross over of members between here and there.  But the more exposure the better.

Good luck

Mandy

 

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Thank you. I tried Lockdale's, but no luck. I'll start a new topic. Could you tell me what forum to place the topic in? I'm unsure on how the site works.

 

Edited by Joebones
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11 minutes ago, Joebones said:

Thank you. I tried Lockdale's, but no luck. I'll start a new topic. Could you tell me what forum to place the topic in? I'm unsure on how the site works.

 

Matthew

Welcome again

Medals would be a good forum here, but if you are interested in learning more about your ancestors then a post in Soldiers wouldn't come amiss as well.

The British Medal Forum Mandy refers to is here - post in the family seeking medals section  http://www.britishmedalforum.com/index.php

Again I would suggest a direct communication with the auctioneers.

Good luck

David

 

Beaten to BMF by Chaz

Edited by DavidOwen
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David’s advice is good, thanks Chaz for the link.  Also set up saved searches on eBay and the saleroom, which covers lots of local auctions, in case they come back onto the market and then you will get alerts via email.

 

Mandy

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Thanks all. I tried registering with the British Medal Forum yesterday, but I've not gotten a response - it seems the admin. are on holidays. Hopefully I'll hear back soon. The auctioneers said they have no record of the buyers (?). I was struggling a bit with the forum titles, as they were coming up as numbers - I changed it now. I'll set up the saved searches as recommended. Thank you all, much appreciated. 

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  • 2 months later...

Very interesting reading considering I find myself in a similar situation having had a group of family medals appear for sale in an auction preview.

 

I had recently been discussing with a collector who currently owns my Great uncle Capt Alfred William Will's MC medal group (he was RAMC/7th Seaforth & South Persia rifles), the current owner did kindly offer to sell then back although I suspect the real context of the contact was to establish if a memorial plaque exists or not, the medals are on sale at this very moment despite him saying they will be kept hold of until I had the funds available to buy them In the future. (would this plaque make any difference in value for a collector if they were on sale as I have kept my cards quite close to my chest regarding the item).

 

I would gladly and proudly have these back in the family for future Will families although sadly It would be another year before I could raise the funds.

 

In case anyone is wondering the medals would most likely have been flogged by a close family member with difficulties, I have been nothing other than pleasant to the current owner despite waiting many weeks for replies to any queztions and yet I really do appreciate that they have been legitimately purchased by a collector although I believe an uncle could have probably inherited them 1st due to him being the older brother.

 

I have considered forwarding on contact details to the auction house as advised in the hope that the next owner may be more helpful, has such a thing been ackowleged in similar circumstances in the past by anyone?

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Dear Alasdair,

Yes, by all means try all those avenues you mentioned, and more: never give up!

I have experienced somewhat similar scenarios, both as far as family medals are concerned, and also as a collector. 

Money talks, of course and it is unfortunate that you do not have the ready cash at this crucial moment. However, this chance may well come again...

Obviously, an MC group with South Persia Rifles connection is desirable (that it is doubly so for you goes without saying). Having said that, the present owner can of course either choose to keep, or to sell for immediate cash return, or do whatever he sees fit.

Yes, I suppose the Plaque would mean a slight Added Value. I personally only collect to Officer 'survivors'!

Sorry not to be more helpful...

Kindest regards,

Kim. 

 

Edited by Kimberley John Lindsay
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5 hours ago, AlasdairW said:

Very interesting reading considering I find myself in a similar situation having had a group of family medals appear for sale in an auction preview.

 

I had recently been discussing with a collector who currently owns my Great uncle Capt Alfred William Will's MC medal group (he was RAMC/7th Seaforth & South Persia rifles), the current owner did kindly offer to sell then back although I suspect the real context of the contact was to establish if a memorial plaque exists or not, the medals are on sale at this very moment despite him saying they will be kept hold of until I had the funds available to buy them In the future. (would this plaque make any difference in value for a collector if they were on sale as I have kept my cards quite close to my chest regarding the item).

 

I would gladly and proudly have these back in the family for future Will families although sadly It would be another year before I could raise the funds.

 

In case anyone is wondering the medals would most likely have been flogged by a close family member with difficulties, I have been nothing other than pleasant to the current owner despite waiting many weeks for replies to any queztions and yet I really do appreciate that they have been legitimately purchased by a collector although I believe an uncle could have probably inherited them 1st due to him being the older brother.

 

I have considered forwarding on contact details to the auction house as advised in the hope that the next owner may be more helpful, has such a thing been ackowleged in similar circumstances in the past by anyone?

 

I would urge you to put your hand down the back of the sofa and see what you can find. If the medals sell to a dealer you are likely to find their next asking price inflated by 30% plus. Better to bite the bullet now than find that they are put completely beyond your reach.

 

It would also perhaps pay to remember that, if they are bought by a collector, he will have paid the price of the "winning" bid because they are worth that much to him/her. As a collector I do not spend money lightly, and would never part with any of my collection unless it suited me to do so. There are items I own which have a value for me that is much greater than the price that I paid for them. The fact that "the market" chooses to value them differently is no concern of mine. There is also the risk that they might go out of the country, perhaps making it much more difficult to get them back in future.

 

Regards,

Mike

Edited by Medaler
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If you look closely the four dot and star type motif between the words is also squeezed up on the She Died example.  The Left example is a West Acton Plaque always wide H numbered outside the lions rear leg 1 - 50  or un numbered.  All Woolwich Plaques are numbered inside the leg 1 - 99 and may have Wide or Narrow H All Woolwich plaques have the WA monogramme on the reverse.

DSC_1782.JPG

War Office Pattern She - Copy.JPG

woolwich arsenal monogramme.jpg

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Dear All,

I am very much in agreement with all of which Mike has so ably written.

In my case, I, too, have "Keeper" groups which will never leave my collection, despite the fact that they are worth fistfulls of Pounds sterling (Euros, even!).

Their so-called Market Value means absolutely nothing to me, inasmuch as I consider myself 1) lucky to have secured the medal groups in question, and 2) am pleased with myself for having - at considerable cost and effort - researched the groups to a high level of detail and knowledge...

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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Thanks for the replies, I will have to see what's down the back of the sofa but sadly I can't see it being enough.

 

The memorial plaque actually no longer exists for Alfred William Will, this was unfortunately scrapped in the 90s.

Would this have much bearing on how collectable his medals are?.

 

I fully appreciate where your are coming from in relation to value of the medals to each individual, I also do actually appreciate that the many collectors help in remembering soldiers through the preservation of the medal groups, believe me though when I say they mean more to me than they would many others and more than any market value, I just don't have a big or deep enough sofa!. 

 

Thanks

 

Alasdair

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go to your local bank, obtain a loan that you could pay back monthly ?????

 

regards

 

Bob R.

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If the vendor is selling at auction he is going to loose a fair percent on the sale price. In Ireland I pay approx 15 % commission on anything I sell plus photography and insurance, I assume something similar will happen in this case.

as a buyer in Ireland you pay approx 25% on the hammer again something similar in the Uk.

so if the hammer falls at 1000 you will pay 1250 and seller gets 850

 

i would ask seller what he is hoping to get at auction do above maths and cut out the middle man with an offer that gives him more and costs you less

ie offer 1100 you save he gains both sides happy

 

if they are not being sold at auction ignore my post. Best of luck

ken

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Dear Alasdair,

Bob and Ken are right!

They mean more to you than many others. Of course!

We realise that, and therefore pay the owner what he wants otherwise they may end up disapearing from the market.

A word about money. Years ago I bought an MC, TD group for 225 Pounds which I considered an enormous amount, but seems a tiny sum today. 

Latterly, to take out the sting of the full price, I buy on instalments from dealers (who know me). In this case, as Bob said, go to the Bank, pay that man before it is too late, and repay the Bank in easy instalments. That way there will be no regrets. We are on your side. We understand this sort of scenario!

Kindest regards,

Kim.

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12 minutes ago, AlasdairW said:

I'll see what I can do, I've also sent a couple of messages to give it a try.

Thank you all again for the advice.

 

Alasdair

 

Can I too join the others in wishing you the very best of luck? I sincerely hope you get them. Easy for me to say, but you will not regret it if you do.

 

Ref you "missing"plaque, if it was present with the group you would have to shell out even more for them. They would make the group more attractive because it would be more complete. There should also have been a Memorial Scroll, which would have added even more value. It's a pity you don't have the plaque, but at least you have the knowledge that nobody else has it either. Reuniting split groups of medals, or complete groups with plaques is something that collectors are usually quite keen to do. If one of the bidders has a matching plaque he is likely to bid more.

 

Reuniting "broken" entitlements is ironically one of the great services that collectors perform and I am proud to say that I've actually managed to do it on several occasions, despite the odds being so heavily stacked against the missing items turning up.

 

Mike

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Hi Alasdair,

I have googled the group and not found them for sale

Can i ask you where they are up for sale as I am wondering what the reserve is 

I am just curious and I understand if you do not want to bring more advertisement  to the auction so ignore my question if you want.

 

if you said what the reserve was at the auction then collectors here might have an idea as to how much higher the medals might reach to give an idea as to how much to pitch as a outside auction bid.

note if the vendor withdraws the items from an auction that is already advertised, the auction house may charge them commission on the lower of the reserve price (again this is how the Irish auctions I sell through work).

 

incidentally i sold an item a month or so ago for a lot of money it was a personal hand crafted item that the purchasers father had made in prison.

After the bidding, the daughter (who was in the room in person)  announced that the item was made by her father and she was delighted to buy it.  I had a reserve of 100 the auction house had an estimate of 300-400 and it sold for 2100.  I have wondered if the woman had announced before bidding started would the other bidder have bid her up so much.

 

Before the auction if she had contacted me I would have gladly sold the item to her (I had not researched the family at all other than to get information on the maker of the object)  I had no interest in keeping the item.  I am glad i have made the profit and will not be contacting the lady to give a refund but sort of makes me think!  But I rescued the item from obscurity in  a junk shop and brought t it to the market so without me it would be gone into the ether.

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