roel22 Posted 3 December , 2016 Share Posted 3 December , 2016 I recently saw this aerial in the IFF Museum in Ypres, of Kleine Vierstraat near Kemmel. Does anybody know what the round objects on the left are? Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 3 December , 2016 Share Posted 3 December , 2016 Hello! Looks like bomb-craters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
momsirish Posted 3 December , 2016 Share Posted 3 December , 2016 Difficult to say exactly. They all seem to be the same size, could a bomber drop a hand full of big bombs all at once, They are not landing on top of each other, and if the little squares to the right are buildings the craters are big or the buildings small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HenryTheGerman Posted 3 December , 2016 Share Posted 3 December , 2016 The aerial seem to be taken at an early stage of the war - intact houses ... I would say: Craters from big shells, for example 21-cm-Mörser (howitzer) shells. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaySearching Posted 3 December , 2016 Share Posted 3 December , 2016 Shellfire craters Following is an Arial photo showing the extent of the bombardment on the Somme battlefield regards Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 4 December , 2016 Share Posted 4 December , 2016 Odd... Bomb craters? Maybe - certainly not shells. But the surrounds are so symmetrical as if the upcast has been sculpted into shape...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 4 December , 2016 Share Posted 4 December , 2016 The round objects have me foxed. The shadows indicate that they are doughnut shaped. May I raise a couple of other points? 1/ What are the objects in the long line at bottom right corner? 2/ The photo shows different types of trench shape. There's the classic one with right angle bends and some more like a slightly wavy line. Both would be effective in preventing enfilade fire but the former would double the length of trench to be dug (compared with a straight trench) whereas the latter would only increase it by a small amount. Why wasn't a slightly wavy line more favoured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 4 December , 2016 Share Posted 4 December , 2016 Here is another photo with craters between Estrées and Asservillers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 4 December , 2016 Share Posted 4 December , 2016 3 hours ago, PhilB said: The round objects have me foxed. The shadows indicate that they are doughnut shaped. May I raise a couple of other points? 1/ What are the objects in the long line at bottom right corner? 2/ The photo shows different types of trench shape. There's the classic one with right angle bends and some more like a slightly wavy line. Both would be effective in preventing enfilade fire but the former would double the length of trench to be dug (compared with a straight trench) whereas the latter would only increase it by a small amount. Why wasn't a slightly wavy line more favoured? 1) "Doughnuts", my point precisely... We have 'sun glare/ reflection' on the bottom side of those raised doughnut edges, and shadow to the top, so south is , basically, at the bottom (but what is the exact season?). Look to the trenches, and the ones beneath the doughnuts, we have 'sun glare' on the upper side of these, so that is the parapet - the trenches are in deep shadow. So north is to the top? 2) To my mind, the one shell crater is by itself in the upper left side - black hole and white chalk upcast? 3) NO idea as to those shapes! I am a 'mere archaeologist'! 4) Yes, great trench shapes! But no further ideas! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
14276265 Posted 4 December , 2016 Share Posted 4 December , 2016 Most likely a training ground with the different styles of trench and the constructed "shell holes". 265 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GWF1967 Posted 4 December , 2016 Share Posted 4 December , 2016 29 minutes ago, 14276265 said: Most likely a training ground with the different styles of trench and the constructed "shell holes". 265 My thought too. Training area with trenches, + N.M.L with simulated/dug craters. Tent and hut encampment on the right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 4 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 4 December , 2016 (edited) 7 hours ago, PhilB said: 1/ What are the objects in the long line at bottom right corner? GWF1967 is correct: these objects are huts. Roel Edited 4 December , 2016 by roel22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 4 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 4 December , 2016 (edited) Thanks for all replies so far. I doubt this area was a training ground. The trenches are part of the British defences at Vierstraat (a few miles away from the front line until early 1918). Roel Edited 4 December , 2016 by roel22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 4 December , 2016 Share Posted 4 December , 2016 They don't have the look of shell/bomb craters to me. Note the spraying out effect and that these ones look more like raised pimples but are craters. Could those in the OP be water tanks? (made of earth). TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johntanner Posted 4 December , 2016 Share Posted 4 December , 2016 How about earth ramparts raised around bell tents to protect the occupants from bomb or shell splinters, where the tents have been removed? John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sepoy Posted 4 December , 2016 Share Posted 4 December , 2016 2 hours ago, johntanner said: How about earth ramparts raised around bell tents to protect the occupants from bomb or shell splinters, where the tents have been removed? John I think this is a possible explanation, but they are not laid out in a "Military" fashion. There are similar features, visible on Google Earth, on the Military Training grounds, to the south of Mytchett Place Road, Mytchett, Surrey, not far from the RAMC Museum at Keogh Barracks. Sepoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gem22 Posted 5 December , 2016 Share Posted 5 December , 2016 Perhaps they are something quite simple, such as, trees or bushes! Garth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roel22 Posted 7 December , 2016 Author Share Posted 7 December , 2016 I doubt it Garth, all this was (and is) farmland. Roel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 7 December , 2016 Share Posted 7 December , 2016 Hello, I'd say definitely a training area with "fake" shell-holes. When I look at trench maps, it seems to be taken after the Messines Battle and before the Germans captured this area. It was at that point quite a bit behind the front line and thus well-suited for a training ground. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 7 December , 2016 Share Posted 7 December , 2016 (edited) If these were fake shell holes, they`d have to have been hand dug to a set design to get them all the same. Why bother when they could easily make real ones? Edited 7 December , 2016 by PhilB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Scalyback Posted 7 December , 2016 Share Posted 7 December , 2016 (edited) I would say the main road is Vierstraat between Molenstraat to the west and Kriekstraat to the east (with the huts along it). Klein Vierstraat Cemetery is now located in the top left of the photo. In my opinion this is not an active defensive trench system. The barns and farmhouse to the east of the firing line would have been demolished to clear the field of fire. One of the barns and the farmhouse are still standing although the farmhouse may have been rebuilt closer to Vierstraat. regards Brian Edited 7 December , 2016 by Old Scalyback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 7 December , 2016 Share Posted 7 December , 2016 53 minutes ago, PhilB said: If these were fake shell holes, they`d have to have been hand dug to a set design to get them all the same. Why bother when they could easily make real ones? Yet it was done behind the front line on training areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AOK4 Posted 7 December , 2016 Share Posted 7 December , 2016 55 minutes ago, Old Scalyback said: I would say the main road is Vierstraat between Molenstraat to the west and Kriekstraat to the east (with the huts along it). Klein Vierstraat Cemetery is now located in the top left of the photo. In my opinion this is not an active defensive trench system. The barns and farmhouse to the east of the firing line would have been demolished to clear the field of fire. One of the barns and the farmhouse are still standing although the farmhouse may have been rebuilt closer to Vierstraat. regards Brian Attached is a scan from a British trench map from 10 March 1918. The place is situated on the reverse slope, so it was very difficult for the German artillery to have shelled this area before June 1917. From June 1917 to April 1918, this was quite a bit behind the front, so a training ground was created and fake shell holes had to be dug. The Germans had similar training grounds with fake shell-holes. Jan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TEW Posted 7 December , 2016 Share Posted 7 December , 2016 With the aerial photo, map and a bit of tech savvy the diameter of the objects could be worked out. I think the long sides of the L shaped enclosure are about 100 Yds. TEW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 7 December , 2016 Share Posted 7 December , 2016 Similar? shell holes at Bodelwyddan Castle Park training trenches. Mike Kmz Bodelwyddan Castle Park trenches.kmz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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