Benjamin Suggitt R36569 KRRC

[kenripper]

I am trying to establish when my great uncle, R36569 Benjamin Suggitt 10th King's Royal Rifles Corps, arrived in France so that I can follow his progress in the Regimental War Diary. Can you help, please?

His service record has been lost but I have managed establish from looking at the enlistment date for men with service numbers close to Benjamin's service number that he enlisted around 6 Jan 1917, probably in Whitehall, London. His enlistment would have commenced a period of training before embarkation for France. Can you tell me how long this period is likely to have been?

The 10th KRRC war diary records on 22 Aug 1917 "The Commanding Officer inspected the new draft who appear to be quite a good lot of men". What is the likelihood that Benjamin was one of these men? The war diary doesn't mention the arrival of men very frequently. I understand that this may be because it was an all too frequent happening and the entry for 22 Aug 1917 was made because little else that was significant was going on that day; would this be a correct understanding?

Benjamin was killed in action north of Langemarcke on 20 Sep 1917 on the attack to take Eagle Trench. His name is inscribed on the memorial wall at Tyne Cot.

[TEW]

Can't answer the questions but there are 3 sets of service records for him on findmypast under B. Suggitt R36569. They may only be single sheets as only the B initial is listed and no Birth Year Given and one omits the regiment.

 

My guess is that these are lists of names for injuries, promotions and the sheet has been re-used in another man's file but FMP have indexed all these 'floating' sheets.

 

Someone else will probably beat me to it but I can have a look later today.

 

TEW

[ss002d6252]

38 minutes ago, TEW said:

Can't answer the questions but there are 3 sets of service records for him on findmypast under B. Suggitt R36569. They may only be single sheets as only the B initial is listed and no Birth Year Given and one omits the regiment.

 

My guess is that these are lists of names for injuries, promotions and the sheet has been re-used in another man's file but FMP have indexed all these 'floating' sheets.

 

Someone else will probably beat me to it but I can have a look later today.

 

TEW

At least one is a nominal roll of men injured in a bomb accident at Poperinghe Station on 19 Nov 15,  along with a page from a court of inquiry report.

 

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f007395646%2f00345&parentid=gbm%2fwo363-4%2fsupp%2f474879

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/record/browse?id=gbm%2fwo363-4%2f007395646%2f00346

Craig

[wandererpaul]

First page says:

No. 2 Company K R R Corps

R36569 Rifleman Suggitt B. attested 5/1/1917 joined 6/1/1917

Edited 25 November , 2016 by wandererpaul

[TEW]

Have to wait till I pop to library later to see them but I guess from his MIC that Suggitt can't be listed in POP Nov 1915?

 

TEW

[wandererpaul]

The 1915 reference is for an R R Suggitt

[wandererpaul]

The third mention on the list on FMP from TEW's link says,

 

5th Battalion KRR Corps Sheerness 20/3/1917

 

The undermentioned off strength to No.1 Infantry Base Depot - B.E.F. 19/3/17

 

6 Company - R36569 Rifleman Suggitt B.

[TEW]

Yes, saw that and tried to find diary for 1 IBD BEF but could only find Aug 1914.

 

Anyway, kenripper said;

Quote

His enlistment would have commenced a period of training before embarkation for France. Can you tell me how long this period is likely to have been?

 

Attested 5/1/1917, joined unit 6/1/1917 and then left UK for 1 IBD 19/3/1917 which makes 10 weeks and 2 days.

 

No idea how long he would have been retained in the IBD but arriving with the battalion 22/8/1917 seems far too long.

 

The other sheet is a list of 6 Coy. men granted ration allowance while on leave. For Suggitt the leave is dated 7/3/17-11/3/17, so he had a weeks' leave a week before joining the BEF.

 

One of the above sheets (not sure which) was in the service record of another KRRC man with a close number. If that man is also on the list of BEF embarkations then his service record should have the time period for IBD training given and his posting to the battalion.

 

 

TEW

[clk]

Hi kenripper,

 

1 hour ago, wandererpaul said:

The third mention on the list on FMP from TEW's link says,

 

5th Battalion KRR Corps Sheerness 20/3/1917

 

The undermentioned off strength to No.1 Infantry Base Depot - B.E.F. 19/3/17

 

6 Company - R36569 Rifleman Suggitt B.

;

That's interesting...and following on from TEW (above), I see that R36562 Saunders is on the same list. His record shows:

 

Posted depot (UK) 5.1.17

Posted 5 Bn 9.1.17

Posted base depot (BEF) 20.3.17

Posted 16 Bn 20.3.17

Posted 10 Bn 28.3.17

 

I see that the British War & Victory Medals Roll for Benjamin shows him as 16 Bn. So it seems quite possible that he followed the same route as Saunders. Further near number sampling may help to confirm.

 

Regards

Chris

Edited 25 November , 2016 by clk

[TEW]

The ration allowance sheet is in the service file of R/35979 William James Pitts, King's Royal Rifle Corps.

 

Having found various bits of service record for him on FMP (some under number A/201246). I can see he attested earlier than Suggitt but joined the BEF a bit later 8/4/1917. But he did go to 1 IBD until he proceeded to 16/KRRC on 1/5/1917 so only 3 weeks at IBD.

 

From that it would appear that Suggitt joined his battalion circa 3/4/1917.

 

I note the OP has trawled the diary for 10/KRRC for drafts arriving, should it not be 16/KRRC?

TEW

[clk]

Hi,

 

19 minutes ago, TEW said:

I note the OP has trawled the diary for 10/KRRC for drafts arriving, should it not be 16/KRRC?

 

I think that would depend on whether he actually joined the 16th Bn., "in the field". The record for R36562 Saunders suggests that it may essentially have been a "paper" transfer at the depot, before being transferred a few days later to the 10th Bn.

 

In the diary for the 10th Bn. there is an entry for 4th April, part of which reads "The behaviour of the last new draft joined three days ago was beyond praise". There doesn't appear to be a relevant entry around the right time in the 16th Bn., diary.

 

Regards

Chris

[kenripper]

Sorry I've not been on to acknowledge these wonderful posts before now but I've been on grandsprog duty today. I've had a cursory look at your posts which I shall assimilate in greater depth over the weekend. Thanks you so much to you all for your help. This is truly a wonderful forum with so many people who actually know what they're talking about.

[kenripper]

I have seen in the Regimental War Diary an entry dated 21 Aug 1917 which reads "The Battalion was photographed by Battalion and by Companies". Was this usual? Any thoughts on where these photographs might be today, if they have survived?

 

Whilst I have no image at all of Benjamin Suggitt, it would be really interesting to see a photo in which he was included.

[stiletto_33853]

The post Chris made (11) makes sense, in that we see many paper transfers made at the depot.

 

10th KRRC received these transfers on 30th March, 3 officers, 18 O.R.'s fully trained and 105 partially trained or untrained O.R.'s, the 20th Division is quite explicit in the numbers received trained or untrained. The next batch for the 10th KRRC did not arrive until 9th April.

 

Andy

Edited 28 November , 2016 by stiletto_33853

[TEW]

4 hours ago, kenripper said:

I have seen in the Regimental War Diary an entry dated 21 Aug 1917 which reads "The Battalion was photographed by Battalion and by Companies". Was this usual? Any thoughts on where these photographs might be today, if they have survived?

 

Whilst I have no image at all of Benjamin Suggitt, it would be really interesting to see a photo in which he was included.

 

Can't help with location of photograph. Both the 10/KRRC diary and for 59th Infantry Brigade say that the Commander-in-Chief was to inspect the whole Brigade on 21/8/1917 but the inspection was cancelled.

 

So I suspect they spent the previous 24 hours cleaning uniforms, kit and had everything all polished up so posed for photographs to show themselves off at their best.

 

Probably an official photographer, maybe one brought in to photo the inspection which didn't happen so battalion and company photos taken? Don't think photography was allowed so an un-official one would probably not be mentioned in a diary.

 

Although no mention of the photograph in other battalions of that Infantry Brigade.

 

TEW

[kenripper]

I believe the Royal Green Jackets may have inherited the KRRC archive and have contacted them. Hopeful more than expectant.

[stiletto_33853]

http://www3.hants.gov.uk/archives

 

Ken,

 

The Green Jackets placed their archived records in the Hampshire Record Offices sometime ago. There is a catalogue you can search through, go through to the catalogue and place KRRC in the search box. You can visit, if practicable and photograph (no camera stands available). I visit the archive when time and business allow and have always found the staff helpful.

 

 

Andy

[kenripper]

Thanks Andy. I've just wandered through the catalogue and that doesn't look hopeful.

[kenripper]

Largely due to the knowledge and kindness of the chaps on this forum I've been able to piece together what I understand to be some salient elements of the life of my great uncle Benjamin Suggitt. I've published the results here ..  http://www.kenripper.co.uk/Benjamin Suggitt.htm . Please do have a read and let me know if you see any errors, omissions, gaffs or elements of plain stupidity on my part; this is a world I've not ventured into much in the past. Thanks to all on the forum who have helped me make this possible. Benjamin would have been lost to obscurity before too long but I hope that I've managed to keep his memory alive a little longer.