Armoured Cars: Naval, Galicia/ Machine Gun Corps, Baku

[MaureenE]

I am hoping someone can give more information about the connection between the Naval Armoured Cars in Galicia, and the Armoured Cars at Baku, approximately a year later.

There is an article

"Further Adventures of the Armoured Cars: Persia and Baku"(click on coloured text for link)  pages 285-297 Blackwood's Magazine Volume 205, January-June 1919. Archive.org. 

Elsewhere the author was  stated to be  A H Ruston

I have the following information about A H Ruston

Full name: Allpress (Alpress/Alpres) Harold Ruston

Temp. Major Machine Gun Corps (Motor)

Awarded the DSO  for gallantry and devotion to duty near Baku on 26 August 1918.

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31583/supplement/12227

 

He had previously been Temp. Lieut-Cdr R.N.V.R, Naval Armoured Car Squadron, during the Russian retreat in Galicia in July and August 1917.  Ruston’s Naval commission was terminated  31.1.18 when he transferred to the Army. This information comes from TNA  ADM/273/5/356 and   ADM/337/118, which someone supplied to me.

Additional London Gazette mentions:

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30687/supplement/5857  Mentioned in despatches

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/30732/supplement/6773/data.pdf     (correction of name)

https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/32168/supplement/12480/data.pdf relinquishes his commission

 I could not find any London Gazette reference for Ruston’s transfer to the Army. Perhaps it is there, but I can’t find it.

 

The following website

http://navymuseum.co.nz/worldwar1/ancillary-forces/armoured-cars/  in relation  to the Armoured cars in Russia says

Its formal designation was British Armoured Car Division RNVR. This unit saw hard fighting in Russia before being withdrawn following the Bolshevik revolution and the personnel were subsequently transferred to the Army Motor Machine Gun Corps.

 

 

 

 

Does anyone know anything more about this? Would this transfer of personnel have taken place 31.1.18 when Ruston transferred to the Army? Would they have all been transferred in a group to the same place?  Were there any Armoured Cars transferred?

Cheers

Maureen

 

 

Edited 6 November , 2016 by Maureene

[barkalotloudly]

i do have this artical plus some original photographs taken of some armoured cars in northern Persia, Baku?

[charlesmessenger]

Maureen

 

Its formal title was the Russian Armoured Car Division. It was formed from two squadrons of the Royal Naval Armoured Car Division in October 1915 and served in Russia December 1915 - January 1918. At the end of that month its personnel were transferred from the Admiralty (or, more precisely, the Royal Marines, under whose control they were from November 1917) to the Machine Gun Corps (Motors) and formed the Dunsterforce Armoured Car Brigade (known as the Duncars), which went to north Persia in September 1918.

 

The Russian Armoured Car Division used mainly Lanchester armoured cars. Duncars were, however,  equipped with a mixture of Austin armoured cars and Ford Model T vans armed with machine guns.

 

Charles M 

[MaureenE]

barkalotloudly, it would be interesting to see some of those photos if you are able to scan them.

 

Charles, thank you vey much for this information.

 

Cheers

Maureen

 

 

[James A Pratt III]

There is a book on this unit "The Tsars British Squadron" which I believe has some photos. Also go to the site Landships.com they should have some information.

[MaureenE]

Thanks James

 

Cheers

Maureen

[sotonmate]

Service file at Kew:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C729977

[MaureenE]

Thanks sotonmate

 

Cheers

Maureen

[MaureenE]

The history of the Armoured Cars in Russia is set out very briefly in pages 11 and 12  (images 15 and 16) of

Report on R.N.A.S. Armoured Car Squadron under Commander O. Locker-Lampson ... serving in Russia.

http://access.bl.uk/item/viewer/ark:/81055/vdc_100008195672.0x000002#?c=0&m=0&s=0&cv=14&z=-747.6232%2C0%2C3850.2464%2C3322

A British Library Digital file.

Most of the report appeas to be about contractual agreements and who would pay for what.  

 

Cheers

Maureen

[bob lembke]

Interesting bit of probably obscure Dunsterforce history. Today, or at least several months ago, a team of archaeologists at Baku are conducting a study of a mass grave at an old Baku sports stadium, of about 1300 dead, who, from their traditional clothing and other evidence, appear to be Jews and local Azeris. The Dunsterforce included some Armenian militias, and when they reached Baku they started mass killings of local Jews and Azeris, the stadium being one of the venues for the massacre. 

[Keith_history_buff]

Persons of the "Dunsterforce Mission" were mentioned in despatches of the Supplement to the London Gazette Supplement no: 31195 Page: 2606-2607. The original despatch from Lieutenant General Marshall, Commander-in-Chief, Mesopotamian Expeditionary Force is dated 11 November 1918. Temporary Major Ruston is mentioned on page 2606, and 79870 William Robert Knox is on the following page.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31195/supplement/2606

Knox was gazetted for the Military Medal in the Second Supplement to the London Gazette, Supplement no: 31512, Pages: 10578-10579 for MGC, in MESOPOTAMIA.
https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/31512/supplement/10578

 

His gallantry MIC, archive reference WO 372/23/130813,  states

Date of gazette: 66
Registered Paper: 68/121/904

[Keith_history_buff]

  

On 20/04/2004 at 22:12, Guest said:

Does anyone have any information on the armoured car units attached to Dunsterforce, I believe one was the Russia armoured car unit transferred from Murmansk but can't find any more details other than they operated Lanchester armoured cars.

  

On 01/02/2022 at 00:25, MaureenE said:

The FIBIS Fibiwiki page Norperforce https://wiki.fibis.org/w/Norperforce has many links about Dunsterforce and one of the items  says 

"Further Adventures of the Armoured Cars: Persia and Baku" pages 285-297 Blackwood's Magazine Volume 205, January-June 1919. Archive.org. The author elsewhere is stated to be A. H. Ruston, who was Temp. Major, Machine Gun Corps (Motor). Allpress (Alpress/Alpres) Harold Ruston was awarded the DSO for actions near Baku on 26 August 1918, London Gazette entry. 

[Ruston mentioned in OP of this very thread]

• Ruston had previously been Temp. Lieut-Cdr R.N.V.R, Naval Armoured Car Squadron... 31.1.18 he transferred to the Army ^[11], along with other personnel. The Dunsterforce Armoured Car Brigade (known as the Duncars) was formed at the end of January 1918 from personnel from the Russian Armoured Car Division who were transferred from the Admiralty (or, more precisely, the Royal Marines, under whose control they were from November 1917) to the Machine Gun Corps (Motors). Duncars were equipped with a mixture of Austin armoured cars and Ford Model T vans armed with machine guns.^[12][13][14]

Maureen

Of interest from the NorPerForce article
 

Quote

16th August: Dunsterville left Enzeli with ‘Dunsterforce’ for Baku to support the Bolshevik Russians and Armenians against the advancing Turkish army. For various reasons, this well documented action was, on the face of it, unsuccessful, with Dunsterforce retreating back to Enzeli by 14th September. But, from a wider point of view, their defence of the town caused two much needed divisions of the Turkish army to be diverted from Palestine.

‘Dunsterforce’ was disbanded but some officers and troops transferred into the larger North Persia force or NORPERFORCE, including 3 of Dunsterville’s famous armoured cars.

16th Sept. Maj. Gen. W.M. Thomson appointed commander of Norperforce, with instructions to stop the Bolsheviks reaching the High Plateau. Gen. Dunsterville was recalled to India.

Constitution of NORPERFORCE 16th Sept 1918 
 

• 6th Light Armoured Motor Battery (less 1 section) and Dunsterforce Armoured Car Brigade.

Distribution of the Mesopotamia Expeditionary Force on 19th October 1918 North Persia Force

Headquarters at Kazvin

• “A”, “B” and “C” Squadrons, Dunsterforce Armoured Car Brigade.
• Dunsterforce Armoured Car Brigade Medical Unit.
• 
  Attached:

• 6th Light Armoured Motor Battery (less 1 section).
• 15th Light Armoured Motor Battery.

 

[Keith_history_buff]

There has been a brief mention on the forum, within the depths of the thread of the diary of WW1 Military Motors - 1916 set x 50 cards Tom Garner. He served with RNAS Armoured Cars from April 1915 onwards, Official Number F4027. On 31 January 1918 he was transferred to the Machine Gun Corps (Motors) and renumbered as 79788.

His diary can be accessed from here:
https://www.mkheritage.org.uk/odhs/tom-garners-first-world-war-diary-preface/

Of particular pertinence to this thread are the following parts of his diary

4 JOURNEY TO BAGHDAD 31 Jan – 18 May 1918

5 BAGHDAD & THE JOURNEY TO BAKU 18 May – 5 Aug 1918

6 BAKU AND THE TURKISH FRONT 5 Aug – 11 Nov 1918
 

[horatio2]

37 minutes ago, Keith_history_buff said:

Official Number F4027.

That RNAS number is Richard Kelly HOOPER, who did not serve in the RNACD. Correct number for GARNER is F.4056 - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6770931

The diary link has, mistakenly, quoted his initial ship's book number at PRESIDENT II.

Edited 5 February , 2022 by horatio2

[Keith_history_buff]

Edward Robinow attested at Chester on 17 September 1914, it being the month of his twentieth birthday. He was an old boy of Rugby School, and was matriculated at London University at the time. (He left the Rugby OTC in December 1909 with the rank of Private.) He was posted to No 3 Company of the 21st (Service Battalion) (4th Public School) Royal Fusiliers. On 29 May 1915, he was discharged on being granted a commission in the Special Reserve. He was posted to No 1 Young Officers Company of the 4th Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers at the Mersey Garrison, closer to the family home in Bowdon, Cheshire than his prior posting at Epsom.

Whilst attached to the 11th (Service) Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers he was wounded on or around 17 December 1916, and spent several weeks at Canadian Clearing Station No. 1 at Bailleul. His colonel had reservations as to his suitability (and efficiency) as an infantry officer. Given that his father was born in Germany, there were concerns as to whether his German and French language skills could be used 'as he is of German extraction himself.' He resigned his commission on May 1917. As of 1944, he was a Special Constable in the Manchester City Police. (Source: officer file at Kew).

On 5 March 1918 he re-enlisted, and was promoted to Sergeant in the Machine Gun Corps (Motors), service number 79973. Part of his MGC ORs burnt service record has survived and can be viewed online. He was transferred to Class Z on 1 May 1919.

It would appear his brother is William Robinow, a commissioned officer who latterly served in the Tank Corps, for whom a paper service file has similarly survived at Kew.