Jackandmum Posted 1 November , 2016 Share Posted 1 November , 2016 Hi, I'm afraid I know nothing about military research/history and wonder whether anyone could help. My great great grandad Bernard Wyatt regimental number 164813, signed up in Gravesend. I have found his military record and his place of burial, he was killed in action and is buried at Trefcon. What my son are interested in is about his regiment. I know he was in the RE and his medal card mentions 101/B223 page 55204. I also know he was in 509th Coy. This is where we are stuck. On ancestors I have found a diary for 509th Coy, does that mean where he would have been? Or was it a huge 'group' that had lots of sub groups? Sorry I don't know any military terms. We would be so interested to know if we could find out the battle in which he lost his life and details of what his job was if possible. I have a couple of pictures if that helps. Incidently, I have a picture of my Belgian, St Niklas, great grandad Arthur Van-Egghen, who survived, I'm not sure whether this would be the place to research him? many thanks Sarah and Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 1 November , 2016 Share Posted 1 November , 2016 Can you give the link to his service record? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackandmum Posted 1 November , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 November , 2016 Thanks Johnboy, does this help? ..hmm tried to up.oad photo but it's too big...I can't see how to share a link from ancestry? Sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackandmum Posted 1 November , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 November , 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 1 November , 2016 Share Posted 1 November , 2016 (edited) I don't think there are any service papers. He was in 509th Company R.E. when he was killed (1st London Field Company) so the war diary will at least tell you what was happening on he day he died. He left a widow Florence. The war diary can be downloaded here for £3.45 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352324 BillyH. Edited 1 November , 2016 by BillyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackandmum Posted 1 November , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 November , 2016 Thanks Billy, yes Florence my great gran and his four young boys - where did you find his widow please. Also there is a 509th war diary on ancestry would that be the same one? I'm quite confused with the different names - is 1st London Field Company another name for 509th ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMannus Posted 1 November , 2016 Share Posted 1 November , 2016 Evening folks, take a look at the mother site re the 509th Field Company (original name 1st London etc) 'Field Companies per Division expanded to three In September 1914 an urgent recommendation was received from GHQ in France that the needs of war required a third Field Company per Division. This had been recommended in 1912 but not implemented. Arrangements were made for eight Territorial Field Companies to fill these places in the first eight Divisions. The Companies were given numbers in February 1917' 509th 1st (London) Field Company TF, joined 6th Division http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/order-of-battle-of-divisions/6th-division/ He was likely killed in the advance through St Quentin and the battles around the Hindenburgh line. His grave does not appear to be a concentration so he must have been killed fairly nearby. Hope this helps, David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 1 November , 2016 Share Posted 1 November , 2016 41 minutes ago, Jackandmum said: Thanks Billy, yes Florence my great gran and his four young boys - where did you find his widow please. Also there is a 509th war diary on ancestry would that be the same one? I'm quite confused with the different names - is 1st London Field Company another name for 509th ? Widow Florence is given on Soldiers Effects record here. Yes the Ancestry diary is exactly the same, but is harder to work through. In your case it is probably worth spending the £3.45 and getting your own copy. BillyH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackandmum Posted 1 November , 2016 Author Share Posted 1 November , 2016 Hi David, thank you that makes things a lot clearer on understanding the regiment -I have now read the notes on the day of his death and events surrounding, yes will get a national archive copy Ancestry not easy to read. Out of interest how many men would be in a company? Thank you. Thank you Billy, I didn't see the effects records, that's so interesting. Was this a regular pension or just a couple of payments?... Also are you able to read what is says below 509th regiment and also the place of death in France?...not sure if you have a better eye for the old writing? Thank you both again, your help is very much appreciated....just a thought - are there any books you would recommend that give accounts etc of the regiment or battles Bernard was probably involved in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 2 November , 2016 Share Posted 2 November , 2016 (edited) 21 hours ago, Jackandmum said: Thank you Billy, I didn't see the effects records, that's so interesting. Was this a regular pension or just a couple of payments?... Also are you able to read what is says below 509th regiment and also the place of death in France?...not sure if you have a better eye for the old writing? Below 509th it says "Lance Corporal (unpaid)" Date and Place doesn't give a place, it effectively says "20.9.18 (Killed In) Action, France. Can't recommend a book, but the war diary is the best place to see where he went etc, they are usually difficult to read though! (especially for a beginner) Also, they were all one off payments. His War Gratuity was £10-10s : and based on length of service, I will ask Craig to have a look at this and he will be able to give you an idea when Bernard enlisted. The other £8-13s-2d was other money owed to him, probably unpaid wages??? (I stand to be corrected) BillyH. Edited 2 November , 2016 by BillyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackandmum Posted 2 November , 2016 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2016 Thanks Billy, that's really helpful and interesting...I'm amazed and in awe that this information is available and of what our ancestors went through, truly awful absolutely no way to have any real idea of the horrors....I will carry on and also add Bernard to the Trefcon website in memory. Sarah and Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 2 November , 2016 Share Posted 2 November , 2016 Quote The other £8-13s-2d was other money owed to him, probably unpaid wages??? (I stand to be corrected) No need to be corrected Quote His War Gratuity was £10-10s : and based on length of service, I will ask Craig to have a look at this and he will be able to give you an idea when Bernard enlisted. That would give 29 months qualifying service. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyH Posted 2 November , 2016 Share Posted 2 November , 2016 (edited) Thanks Craig. Sarah & Jack - did you find the probate record on Ancestry? http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/1904/31874_222924-00487?pid=1682635&backurl=//search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DRZd1%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3Dukprobatecal%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26msT%3D1%26gsfn%3Dbernard%20%26gsfn_x%3D1%26gsln%3Dwyatt%26gsln_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D1%26cpxt%3D1%26cp%3D4%26catbucket%3Drstp%26uidh%3Duk2%26pcat%3DBMD_DEATH%26fh%3D0%26h%3D1682635%26recoff%3D%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=RZd1&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true It seemed to take a long time to sort out his will? BillyH. Edited 2 November , 2016 by BillyH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackandmum Posted 2 November , 2016 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2016 Thank you both, I've never seen/used the probate on ancestry. Yes it did take quite a while didn't it, may have been complications with property and stuff....Does that 29 months service suggest he enlisted in early 1916 - I do have his sons birth certificate 16/11/16 which states he is a Sapper no 1 entrenching batt - does that sound correct? I can't find his enlistment record, I understand a lot were lost in ww2. Also so trying to find the right trench map from Scottish archives but there are many numbered - is there a reference anywhere to correspond to battles etc - I've had a look but can't find anything. thank you again Sarah and Jack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackandmum Posted 2 November , 2016 Author Share Posted 2 November , 2016 Thought be nice to put a face to the person you've helped with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kentishwolf Posted 3 November , 2016 Share Posted 3 November , 2016 (edited) He was commemorated on Gravesend's main memorial in Windmill Gardens and the "Temporary" memorial in what is now the Old Town Hall. He has an entry in The Valour Still Shines, about the Gravesend memorial by St Johns School. States Bernard was born in 1886. the son of Walter and Annie (Douglas) Wyatt . Walter, born 1862, Leamington was a carpenter and builder. Annie was born in 1856 in Wolverton. The couple married in 1882 and had ten children, Reginald, Elsie, Bernard, Grace, Douglas, Olive, May, Leonard, Victor, Hilary and Norton. Bernard Married Florence Gillett in Gravesend in 1907, the book lists just two children, Leonard, born Gravesend in 1914 and Bernard, born Gravesend in 1916. They lived at 15, Coombe Road, Gravesend. Obit from the Gravesend Reporter. Edited 3 November , 2016 by Kentishwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackandmum Posted 3 November , 2016 Author Share Posted 3 November , 2016 Thank you Kentishwolf for your information, I've never been to the Gravesend Memorial - is that along Clarence Place?.... I have done a lot of general family history but will pursue the military with Bernard's brothers - the main family moved to Sutton, Surrey in the early 1900s and were Plymouth Brethryn, although not Bernard - he and Florence had a further two boys - one being my grandad Stan(ley). Is The Valour Still Shines a locally produced book, I guess it's available in the library. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kentishwolf Posted 3 November , 2016 Share Posted 3 November , 2016 (edited) That is the memorial, and yes the book is local, but the library was presented with a copy of each volume as it was released. This is from the "Temporary" memorial in the old town hall. Edited 4 November , 2016 by Kentishwolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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