Gardenerbill Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 Can anyone help with the abbreviations on this Medal Card H.A.C. Pte Private Honourable Artillery Company? 1/34th S.P. St No idea on this one 24/ Lond R. Lieut 24th London Regiment Lieutenant A.S.C. Army Service Corps India Army Capt Indian Army Captain India Army Capt As usual any suggestions welcome anf graetly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 (edited) N/A card has SP transcribed as Sikh Pioneers (ties in with later service with the Indians as an officer). I'd guess its either 'Lt' or 'St' as it's in the rank column. What rank was he on commission - that should confirm if he was a Sergeant or not. Craig Edited 30 October , 2016 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPT Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 I read it as Lt with a fancy L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 (edited) Can you find his commission in the Lodon Gazette? It might show his status when commissioned. There might be an officer's record at TNA (Kew). Roger M Edit: Or what he was commissioned into! Edited 30 October , 2016 by rolt968 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 (edited) Dear Mark, I am very glad to help: indeed the story behind that officer is tantalizing! (I collect to that sort!) To answer your question: 1st Battalion, 34th Sikh Pioneers. At an educated guess, I would say that your fellow was Lieut. C. Worssam (or Warssam): First Commission 1 July 1917...? Kindest regards, Kim. Edited 30 October , 2016 by Kimberley John Lindsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 Just now, Kimberley John Lindsay said: Dear Mark, I am very glad to help: indeed the story behind that officer is tantalizing! (I collect to that sort!) To answer your question: 1st Battalion, 34th Sikh Pioneers. At an educated guess, I would say that your fellow was Lieut. C. Worssam (or Warssam): First Commission 1 July 1917...? Kindest regads, Kim. That's the man I found with the details but the medal roll states he was commissioned 18/10/1915 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 Earliest entry I can find for him so far - Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 30 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2016 Kim Hi, Spot on Cecil Worssam how did you geuss? I have 3 gazette entries first is when he joined the ASC as 2nd Lieutenant June 1917. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 30 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2016 The card has him entering theatre 1 France 29th December 1914 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 Dear Craig, Clever of you to find the ASC from Londons commission. Super! Dear Mark, I looked at the 1919 Indian Army List, under 1/34 S. P., and he was the only attached Officer with an ASC background. Voila! The 1 July 1917 date no doubt refers to his having joined the Indian Army. Kindest regards to you both, Kim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 1 minute ago, Gardenerbill said: The card has him entering theatre 1 France 29th December 1914 Medal roll shows him in France from 29/12/14 to 16/10/15 and then commission in 18/10/15 with the 2/24th London. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 30 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2016 Thanks Craig, The second Gazette entry 29th January 1918 is as follows: 2nd Lt. C. Worssam, seniority below Lt. W.E. Walker and to remain seconded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 30 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2016 Final Gazette entry: 29th August 1922 Indian Army Reserve of Officers Captains, and are permitted to retain the rank of Captain 1st May 1922 C. Worssam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 "Mr Worssam is back from Flanders where he has been serving with the Honourable Artillary Company to take up a commission in 2/24th County of London Regiment (The Queens). His father is an Ex-Mayor of St Albans and a member of Herts County Council." - Luton Times and Advertiser 12 November 1915. (From his engagement announcement) Roger M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 June 17 army list for the 24th London Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 (edited) Dear Mark, Yes, indeed. I have just found him in the January 1920 Indian Army List.:- Indian Army Reserve of Officers. Infantry. Captains: Date of First Commn.: 19 Oct 1915, Worssam, Cecil. Date of rank: 19 Oct 1919. Released. Please describe his medal group to us... Kindest regards, Kim. Edited 30 October , 2016 by Kimberley John Lindsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 (edited) We've been assuming that the entries are in chronological order on the MIC. I don't think that is necessarily so. Perhaps we have two sets in chronological order the red entries and the blue entries, but the whole set are not? Roger M Edited 30 October , 2016 by rolt968 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 30 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2016 Would it help to see the whole card? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 (edited) 18 minutes ago, rolt968 said: We've been assuming that the entries are in chronological order on the MIC. I don't think that is necessarily so. Perhaps we have two sets in cgronological order the red entries and the blue entries, but the whole set are not? Roger M I think you're possibly right roger - he's in the Londons in June 17 and looks like he went to the ASC in July 17 and then the Sikhs in July 17 (which is when he seems to leave the British Army lists). Craig Edited 30 October , 2016 by ss002d6252 extra detail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 July 17 Indian Army list is here - but its 721MB in size http://www.new.dli.ernet.in/handle/2015/285011 Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberley John Lindsay Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 (edited) Dear Mark, Yes, the whole card would indeed be interesting to see, as would the medals! Extremely clever of Roger M to have found the obscure Engagement Notice. Well done! It says a lot about the quality of HAC private soldiers... Kindest regards, Kim. Edited 30 October , 2016 by Kimberley John Lindsay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 30 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2016 My interest in Cecil Worssam is when he joined my Grandfather's ASC MT Company the 801st in Salonika War Diary entry: 05/07/1917 1 officer reported for duty (2nd Lieut. C. Worssam 2/24th London Reg) Here's the full card: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 I think he has two sets of BWM and Victory Medal Rolls. There are separate entries for the BWM and the Victory Medal (one entry each) for Lieutenant C Worssam, IASC and Indian Army and a combined BWM and Victory Medal entry for Pte Cecil Worssam, 1912, HAC. Roger M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gardenerbill Posted 30 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2016 16 minutes ago, rolt968 said: We've been assuming that the entries are in chronological order on the MIC. I don't think that is necessarily so. Perhaps we have two sets in chronological order the red entries and the blue entries, but the whole set are not? Roger M Roger I think you're right the 1/34th S.P is in a darker red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 30 October , 2016 Share Posted 30 October , 2016 (edited) He's in the ASC only on the July 17 army list (with the lists playing catchup on the dates) Craig Edited 30 October , 2016 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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