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Remembered Today:

London Regt battalions full dress uniforms - Caton Woodville plates


MBrockway

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Haha. I think (I hopeūüėĚ) I saw that the first time I posted, but might¬†have forgotten in all the subsequent discussion. There seem to be a lot of points to bear in mind!¬†

 

Edit: Post No. 76 (17th London Regt.), updated to reflect recent discussion in this thread. 

Edited by Drew-1918
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  • 1 month later...

This is a picture of my Grandfather Thomas Aaron Coldwell, He married my Grandmother in 1914 when he was 21 years old.

The marriage certificate states that he was a Private 11th County of London Regiment, I know he was a regular soldier before the war could the uniform be a different regiment. what I would like to know is the colour of the tunic in the photo as I would like to have it copied as an oil painting.

It would also be interesting know what battles he was in, I know he was gassed and shell shocked and I was told he had a plaque even though he survived the war. 

Thomas Coldwell 002.jpg

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On 14/11/2018 at 20:29, RickyM said:

This is a picture of my Grandfather Thomas Aaron Coldwell, He married my Grandmother in 1914 when he was 21 years old.

The marriage certificate states that he was a Private 11th County of London Regiment, I know he was a regular soldier before the war could the uniform be a different regiment. what I would like to know is the colour of the tunic in the photo as I would like to have it copied as an oil painting.

It would also be interesting know what battles he was in, I know he was gassed and shell shocked and I was told he had a plaque even though he survived the war. 

 

 

He is wearing a scarlet, 7-button full dress tunic with the white facings (collar and cuffs) of an English or Welsh infantry regiment without Royal appellation.  The curved shoulder title and collar badges indicate his regiment.  It does not appear to be a battalion of the London Regiment, which was entirely Territorial Force (part-time citizen soldiers).  Knowing your grandfather’s home town / origins might give a clue to the regiment whose uniform he wears.  Also if you can magnify and describe his collar badge. 

Edited by FROGSMILE
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43 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

 

He is wearing a scarlet, 7-button full dress tunic with the white facings (collar and cuffs) of an English or Welsh infantry regiment without Royal approbation.  The curved shoulder title and collar badges indicate his regiment.  It does not appear to be a battalion of the London Regiment, which was entirely Territorial Force (part-time citizen soldiers).  Knowing your grandfather’s home town / origins might give a clue to the regiment whose uniform he wears.  Also if you can magnify and describe his collar badge. 

Thank you FROGSMILE my Grandfather was born in the City of London, Clerkenwell at the time of marriage but later moved to Islington, I don't know if I can get a better image of the collar badge I will try tomorrow but I think it looks like a grenade.

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9 hours ago, RickyM said:

Thank you FROGSMILE my Grandfather was born in the City of London, Clerkenwell at the time of marriage but later moved to Islington, I don't know if I can get a better image of the collar badge I will try tomorrow but I think it looks like a grenade.

 

Grenade pattern collar badges were worn side ways on and that does not seem to be the case with your photo.  Also that would not match with the single piece, curved shoulder title.  If you can examine the actual photo through a magnifying glass it might well reveal more detail.

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It's such a poor image, it's difficult for us to comment with confidence beyond what Frogsmile's already said: this is not the uniform of the 11/LR.

 

The two county infantry regiments closest to Islington/Clerkenwell would be the Middlesex (yellow facings) and Essex (white facings) Regiments and the collar badge in the photo looks like neither.

 

The battalions of the Hertfordshire Regiment were both Territorial Force and would have worn TF style shoulder titles, which your chap is not.

 

I think we're stuck until you can give us a much better quality scan.  He is definitely not 11th London Regiment in this photo, and the shoulder titles appear to rule out the redcoat battalions of the LR. 

 

If you can turn up a Great War service record for him there's a chance he might give unit detail of his prior Regular service on his TF attestation form for 11/LR.  Was his marriage before or after the outbreak of the War?

 

Mark

 

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30 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

It's such a poor image, it's difficult for us to comment with confidence beyond what Frogsmile's already said: this is not the uniform of the 11/LR.

 

The two county infantry regiments closest to Islington/Clerkenwell would be the Middlesex (yellow facings) and Essex (white facings) Regiments and the collar badge in the photo looks like neither.

 

The battalions of the Hertfordshire Regiment were both Territorial Force and would have worn TF style shoulder titles, which your chap is not.

 

I think we're stuck until you can give us a much better quality scan.  He is definitely not 11th London Regiment in this photo, and the shoulder titles appear to rule out the redcoat battalions of the LR. 

 

If you can turn up a Great War service record for him there's a chance he might give unit detail of his prior Regular service on his TF attestation form for 11/LR.  Was his marriage before or after the outbreak of the War?

 

Mark

 

 

37 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

It's such a poor image, it's difficult for us to comment with confidence beyond what Frogsmile's already said: this is not the uniform of the 11/LR.

 

The two county infantry regiments closest to Islington/Clerkenwell would be the Middlesex (yellow facings) and Essex (white facings) Regiments and the collar badge in the photo looks like neither.

 

The battalions of the Hertfordshire Regiment were both Territorial Force and would have worn TF style shoulder titles, which your chap is not.

 

I think we're stuck until you can give us a much better quality scan.  He is definitely not 11th London Regiment in this photo, and the shoulder titles appear to rule out the redcoat battalions of the LR. 

 

If you can turn up a Great War service record for him there's a chance he might give unit detail of his prior Regular service on his TF attestation form for 11/LR.  Was his marriage before or after the outbreak of the War?

 

Mark

 

Thank you mark and everybody that has commented I have attached the marriage certificate that shows they were married 4th Nov 1914.

I am trying to find other photo's

img20181115_11104708.jpg

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1 hour ago, RickyM said:

 

Thank you mark and everybody that has commented I have attached the marriage certificate that shows they were married 4th Nov 1914.

I am trying to find other photo's

img20181115_11104708.jpg

 

img20181115_13100961.jpg

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I can see it now.  He is Essex Regiment, whose headquarters and training depot was at Warley (Brentwood).  His tunic (and collar badge) is of the type in use before 1912.  After that date the shoulder straps were changed to be completely white, matching the collar and cuffs.

 

D17AE0EF-78B2-4BFB-9DB1-63A998448021.jpeg

E2C0474B-4D81-4F5A-939F-5F5914D2319C.jpeg

33930DA8-C621-4C38-8CD4-07347DAD265E.jpeg

311B22D6-34A5-4999-B4D9-F1BB1C0C38E0.jpeg

D1FB6EA5-643B-4A4D-A822-980D218F2B8D.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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42 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

I can see it now.  He is Essex Regiment, whose headquarters and training depot was at Warley.  His tunic (and collar badge) is of the type in use before 1912.  After that date the shoulder straps were changed to be completely white, matching the collar and cuffs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

D17AE0EF-78B2-4BFB-9DB1-63A998448021.jpeg

E2C0474B-4D81-4F5A-939F-5F5914D2319C.jpeg

33930DA8-C621-4C38-8CD4-07347DAD265E.jpeg

Thank you FROGSMILE I have always wanted to know this at least 50 years.

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10 minutes ago, RickyM said:

Thank you FROGSMILE I have always wanted to know this at least 50 years.

 

Glad to help.  I enclose photos of the barracks where he would have trained in Brentwood (Warley).

 

C4598692-546B-489D-8E02-3ECB893B8DC0.jpeg

845988B2-B6F1-4EF1-9812-67B711C4E771.jpeg

7CAE90FD-9263-4474-946B-45EA663D3776.jpeg

Edited by FROGSMILE
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Good result!

 

If you wish to gather further info on him though, can I ask that you begin a separate topic in the Soldiers sub-forum as this topic here is primarily focussed on London Regiment full dress uniforms - many thanks!

 

Mark

 

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Thanks Mark this is a Great website.

1 hour ago, MBrockway said:

Good result!

 

If you wish to gather further info on him though, can I ask that you begin a separate topic in the Soldiers sub-forum as this topic here is primarily focussed on London Regiment full dress uniforms - many thanks!

 

Mark

 

Thanks mark this is a Great website.

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Sometime new members hesitate to begin new topics - the blank page syndrome!  I encourage you to go for it - you'll find the Pals will enthusiastically pitch in to help.

Mark

 

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19 minutes ago, MBrockway said:

Sometime new members hesitate to begin new topics - the blank page syndrome!  I encourage you to go for it - you'll find the Pals will enthusiastically pitch in to help.

Mark

 

OK but Maybe not today

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  • 9 months later...

 

B511F35F-F50C-4007-B569-B441880511AD.jpeg.8773902910701553679cb4b5da680849.jpeg

FBD41461-B2C0-4552-82A7-063DFA9CE20F.jpeg.35c52f78fb5a12f0b553bb7ac148834c.jpeg

 

Regimental Orders for the 9th London Regiment, 1913. Review Order, ‚ÄúGreen trousers, ...green frock‚ÄĚ. Not meant to counter previous discussion about black trousers, merely recorded out of interest.¬†

 

Regards,

 

Chris

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Believed to be 8th London Regiment. The men appear to be wearing green tunics with dark cuffs and black trousers. 

 

4350C94A-1A47-437E-8F14-46C71EC77808.jpeg.a558bd4837c6cd8611fc4d6b8e3724d5.jpeg

 

26DE8790-68CF-4B9F-B4DE-7772EE5B5899.png.6fd12284221c1469f80352f6d08041c8.png

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Excellent photos.  Definitely showing rifle green tunics and black trousers, a common combination, as we know, but it’s unclear how many regiments/battalions followed that practice.

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Very useful evidence once more Chris - much appreciated.

Mark

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