London Regt battalions full dress uniforms - Caton Woodville plates

[Drew-1918]

 

Edited 25 April , 2018 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

 

 

6th London Regiment

 

1859               24^th Battalion of the Surrey Regiment [Presumably a scarlet uniform?]

 

1862               Transferred- became the 48^th Middlesex Regiment. “The uniform of this new unit was of “rifle” green with scarlet facings, the

                      headdress, at first, a shako with cock’s feathers to the front.”

 

1872               Amalgamated with the 2^nd Battalion of the City of London Volunteer Regiment. Given the name the 2^nd Bn., City of London

                      Regiment (Volunteers) with the subsidiary title of the 10^th Bn., King’s Royal Rifle Corps.    

                     “The uniform of the 48^th Bn., Middlesex Regiment was retained, save that a rifle busby was substituted for the shako…”

 

1898               Introduction of the “Rifle” helmet.

 

1908               6^th (City of London) Battalion “City of London Rifles”

 

From The "Cast Iron Sixth" A History of the Sixth London Regiment (The City of London Rifles), Capt. E. G. Godfrey, MC

 

Edited 24 August , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

I am not sure at all whether O.R.s wore this helmet or not.  Confirmed. See photograph, Westlake & Chappell British Territorial Units 1914-18, p.20

 

 

 

7th London Regiment

 

1859               ‘Workmen’s Volunteer Brigade’

 

1861               First Officer’s commissions and the unit formally adopted as the 3^rd City

                      of London Rifle Volunteer Corps.  It adopted a scarlet uniform with buff                           

                      facings and brass buttons, at first with a bearskin and red plume, later        

                      with a kepi.

 

1881               3^rd London RVC designated as the 11^th Volunteer Battalion, King’s

                      Royal Rifles Corps, but continued to use its former title and did not

                      adopt the Rifle green  uniform and black buttons of the KRRC.

 

1908               7^th (City of London) Battalion

 

From Wikipedia, which quotes various different London Regiment Histories.

 

Edited 20 August , 2018 by Drew-1918
Correction

[Drew-1918]

 

 

 

Design for the badges on the Rifle cap is based on a diagram of the badges worn by the 24th Middlesex VB which is at the National Archives (My thanks, as so often, to 'Jelly Terror' for providing this information). For ORs, the 24th Middlesex cap badge was underneath a crown on the cord boss. My speculative illustration is also based on apparent evidence from a photograph provided by Chris Reid, post #109, of his great grandfather in POR full dress uniform. Many thanks to him for kindly posting.

Edited 24 November , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

 

*Detail used to create this illustration draws heavily on the impressive 9th Londons collection of 'Jelly Terror' at the BCMB Forum.

I am also grateful to him for pointing out details of the mitred cuffs. 

 

**Detail regarding the rifle cap from here

 

Victoria Rifles

 

1803 Duke of Cumberland's Sharpshooters (Disbanded 1814). 

 

"The uniform of the newly raised Regiment was of rifle green with a short cavalry jacket and tight trousers; brass buttons with the letters D.C.S.S.'' tall shako with long feather plume black gaiters. For undress white tights were worn. The Officers wore a hanging hussar jacket trimmed with fur."

 

 

1835 The Royal Victoria Rifle Company

 

c.1846 Coat.- A dark rifle green superfine or second cloth frock coat single breasted, with stand-up collar, black horn buttons embossed with a death's head, the collar trimmed with black mohair cord to pattern, and the cuffs with narrow braid of the same material ; officer's coats to be trimmed with broad braid, loops and frogs

Trousers.- Of superfine or second cloth same colour as the coat trimmed down the sides with black mohair oak-leaf lace, two inches wide.

Scales.- The shoulder scales be bronzed, with a small silver gilt bugle in the centre of the crescent ; officer with plated scales, and a gilt bugle in the centre of the crescent.

Chaco.- Of black beaver, yeoman crown, ten inches across the top, and seven inches from the centre, leather top and and leather V on each side ; mohair cord and tassels, a small death's head, etc., on a silk rosette in front with a crown, and the letters R.V.R. underneath, all in silver or white metal ; plain black leather fixed peak, bronzed lion's head, and scales, drooping horse hair plume, with bronzed socket, and plated ring ; the officer's full dress a green feather plume.

Foraging Cap.- Of black oil skin (to stand up), ten inches across the crown, the band to be two inches wide, with a death's head, etc., in silver or white metal, on the front, black leather fixed peak. 

Stock, rifle, sword, pouch, shoulder belt, waist belt, ball bag and powder horn.

 

1853 The Victoria Rifles, 1st Middlesex Rifle Volunteers

 

1878 Shako abolished and Army pattern rifle helmet adopted. 

 

St. George's and Hanover Square Volunteers, The Old St. George's

 

1794 St. George's, Hanover Square, Volunteers

 

The uniform consisted of blue, long-tailed coats, double-breasted, with bright red facings; cocked hat for battalion company, white breeches, black gaiters up to the knee, with white metal buttons black velvet stocks, leather pigtails, red and white hackle feathers twelve inches long, and bright-barrelled firelocks. The grenadiers wore the bearskin caps, with patch of red cloth behind and white chain ornaments. The Light Infantry Company had leather helmets with a green feather attached. They were called the Light Bobs.

 

At some time soon after this, the jackets became scarlet.

 

 

1859 11th Middlesex, St. George's Rifles

 

1880 Re-numbered 6th Middlesex

 

1892 1st and 6th Middlesex amalgamated. Became the 1st Middlesex (Victoria and St. George's) Rifle Volunteers

 

"The gorgeous and expensive uniform of the old Victoria Rifles has been superseded by the neat and serviceable pattern of the K.R.R."

 

Became the 1st V.B. Of the K.R.R.C. 

 

St. Giles's and St. George's (Bloomsbury) Volunteers

 

1797 Bloomsbury and Inns of Court Volunteers

 

1803 St. Giles's and St. George's Bloomsbury Volunteers

 

1859 37th Middlesex Rifle Volunteer 'St. Giles's and St. George's  Volunteer Corps

 

1890 Renumbered 19th Middlesex 

 

_________________________________

 

1908 19th Middlesex Rifles, "St. Giles's and St. George's (Bloomsbury) Rifle Volunteers" amalgamated with 1st Middlesex, "Victoria and St. George's Rifles" to become 9th London Regiment "Queen Victoria's Rifles".  

 

 

From The History of the Queen Victoria's Rifles, 1792-1922, Compiled by Major C. A. Cuthbert Keeson, V.D.

[Drew-1918]

I am currently lacking images to use to illustrate the 10th Bn and 11th Bn.

 

 

My thanks to those who have written in the 'Hackney Gurkhas' thread for information identifying the 10th Bn as wearing full dress uniform of the Essex Regiment.

Edited 22 August , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

 

12th London Regiment

 

1780 The Gentlemen Members of Gray's Inn

 

"...each member shall provide himself with a scarlet coatee, faced with cloth of the same colour, silver buttons, white cloth waistcoat, breeches, and white stockings, a blue cockade, and silver shoe buckles." 

 

1859 40th Middlesex Rifle Volunteers "The Central London Rifle Rangers"

 

"...[The 40th Middlesex] always wore the uniform of the King's Royal Rifles, namely,

dark green with scarlet facings, the men's tunics were of the K.R.R. pattern without the scarlet facing piping down the edge. The shako was black with a black ball tuft, while a leather waist belt, a pouch and bayonet frog completed the men's kit. The Officer's uniform was of K.R.R. pattern with scarlet facings, light green chord in the sleeve knots according to regulations, while the shako plate and chin chain were silver plated. The design of the former and the central ornament on the pouch belt was an 8-pointed star with a bugle and "XL," with the regimental motto "Excel" therein ; the Crown above the ornaments on the men's shako was bronzed. Up till 1875 dismounted Officers as well as mounted officers wore knee boots of rather soft leather with the trousers tucked into them. The Pioneers wore busbies of the Guard's pattern."

 

During the period-1878-9- the helmet was issued to the Regiment, a heavy, clumsy head gear which was disliked by all ranks, especially the younger men of the Regiment as it simply extinguished them. The Field officers at the same time adopted a short neckline looped up on the right breast. Until the alteration in the financial arrangements of the Regiment at this period members upon enlisting for 4 years had to pay for their uniforms and 4s. towards the band fund. The issue of uniforms was on the same scale as previously described, helmet, tunic, trousers, waist-belt, pouch and frog- there were pockets in the back of the tunic, and these were the only ones (and many men carried their rations for a day and a half in them. The Regiment attended all the Brighton reviews, parading at something like 1 or 2 a.m., and getting back the next night about the same time. Each man provided his own overcoat, and rolled it or wore it in his own way; there were no such things as haversacks or water bottles, so that men would be seen with all kinds of bags worn on their waist-belts or strapped on their backs, with bottles of all descriptions both in the bags and hanging from their belts. One can readily imagine on a wet day what the men looked like some in mackintoshes and in all manner of overcoats and colours. 

 

1880 Renumbered 22nd Middlesex RVC (Central London Rangers). 

Became a Volunteer Battalion of the Royal Fusiliers the following year. This affiliation was changed to the KRRC a year later; officially the Rangers were the 8th VB KRRC.

 

In 1885 the men wore a tunic of the K.R.R. pattern except that they had an Austrian knot in light green braid above the scarlet piping on the cuff; the shoulder straps were black edged with scarlet, and with 22nd MX on them in light green. The buttons were of black composition, not of bronzed metal. The black cloth helmet with bronzed mounting was now worn by everyone in the Regiment, including Medical Officer, Pioneers and Band. The helmet and pouch plates were changed to a Maltese Cross, at first with a small lion in the four angles, but these were soon afterwards cut away to resemble as much as possible the K.R.R. Cross. The men's trousers were plain black; leggings and Glengarries were possessed by nearly all the men, but other equipment was issued specially for Camp, Reviews, &c., consisting of haversack, water-bottle and (for marching columns only) great coats. The Officer's uniform was according to K.R.R. Pattern, and the light green Austrian knot, which did not harmonise with the scarlet cuff, began to disappear. The whistle chain was worn of treble thickness so as to be shorter and not to swing about ; and no cap lines at all were worn. Mess jackets and vests (of K.R.R. pattern) were in use, not quite universal until about 1890. 

Officers had rifle pattern great coats with black buttons. ... During 1887 and 1888 a few changes were made in the direction of bringing the Officers' uniform more up to date and more in accordance with the K.R.R. Lambskins were worn on the mounted Officers' horses in review order only. The Austrian fatigue cap came into use, whistle chains were again worn long, and the pouch belt was discontinued in drill order, except for the Captain and Subaltern of the Day. 

 

In 1890, thanks to the efforts of Sir William Whitehead, the then Lord Mayor, the Metropolitan Volunteers received a more adequate outfit than it had hitherto been possible to procure for them. A form of the "Slade Wallace" equipment was issued to the Battalion in March, and this and the Regimental great coat were worn for the first time on Easter Monday. The great coats had no capes or shoulder straps-they were black with 22 MX worked in scarlet on the turn-down collar The term Rifleman" was officially substituted for Private during this year.

 

The new Rifle busby was taken into wear in 1892-this was the K.R.R. pattern for all ranks, the small bronze plate in front of the Officers' busby being of the Battalion pattern, and the end of the cap lines was now attached to the back of the busby by all Officers.

 

The Battalion was particularly fortunate in the Adjutants appointed. On the retirement of Captain Higgins in 1882, Major C. W. Adderly, of the Royal Fusiliers, was posted to the Regiment in 1886 he assumed the surname of Cradock in lieu of that of Adderly and, retiring in 1887, was gazetted to the Honorary Colonelcy in 1901. In October, 1887, Captain and Brevet-Major E. W. Herbert, King's Royal Rifles, took over the post of Adjutant and the King's Royal Rifles for many years supplied his successors.

 

On March 31st, 1907, the old volunteer Force ceased to exist, by virtue of the Territorial and Reserve Force Act of 1907, and on the following day the Corps went over as a unit to the new Territorial Army, and was henceforth known as The Rangers," the 12th (County of London Battalion), The London Regiment, forming the 4th Battalion of the 3rd Brigade of the ?st London Division, which was commanded by Colonel F. T. Maxse, C.V.O., C.B., D.S.O. (Coldstream Guards), and the Division by the former Brigadier, Major-General A. E. Codrington, C.V.O., C.B. The Rangers on June 20th, 1908, marched in and took over their present Headquarters in Chenies Street, Tottenham Court Road. The Rangers still remained a rifle regiment, and the Brigade was made up of the four London Regiments, the 9th (Queen Victoria's Rifles), the 10th (Paddington Rifles), the 11th (the Finsbury Rifles), and the 12th (the Rangers). 

 

From The Rangers' Historical Records From 1859 to the Conclusion of the Great War, by Capt. A. V. Wheeler-Holohan & Capt. C. M. G. Wyatt

Edited 20 September , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

 

 

13th London Regiment

 

1859               4^th Middlesex Volunteer Rifle Corps, Middlesex Cavalry, 3^rd Middlesex Artillery, formed by Lord Truro.

                      1^st Middlesex “Victorias” and 2^nd (South) Middlesex, formed by Lord Ranelagh.

 

                     “Something different from the scarlet of the regular line regiments and the green of the Rifles was felt to be required.”                  

                     "Until the matter was ultimately settled, the diversity of uniforms, occasioned by the zeal of commanders, produced some startling    

                      effects ... [In 1899] The dress selected was a Zouave costume modelled after the style of Louis Napoleon's famous (or infamous)    

                      Algerians. The ... unit marched through the streets of London and had to endure a fire of ridicule more devastating than any enemy

                      fusillade could have been."

 

                     “[Later] the question of uniform was settled as grey with red facings, with a shako having a glazed peak. The belts were   

                      black, and the trimming of the uniform was of buff laces with silver appointments.”

 

1881               4^th Middlesex R.V.C. became the 2^nd Volunteer battalion of the King’s Royal Rifle Corps.

                     “As volunteer Battalions of the 60^th King’s Royal Rifles, the 4^th and 2^nd Middlesex R.V.C.  were rifle corps and trained as such.

 

                       

                       The-Saleroom.com

 

                       

                       

                     

                                              

                       The-Saleroom.com                     

                       The Regimental motto was "Semper Paratus," the words surrounding the Maltese cross of the K.R.R.C. badge.

 

1887               West London Rifles as “sub-title” of the 4^th Middlesex R.V.

 

                     “There were now about thirty Volunteer Corps in London … the corps being brigaded roughly according to the colour of the uniform, 

                      the Volunteer Force going for training at Easter in these groups. The temporary command and the staff work were provided by the   

                     Brigade of Guards, and the volunteers gained much experience from this contact with the regular army.”

                     “These groups were very unhandy, and the next stage in organisation was the formation of four brigades, north, south, east, and     

                     west, each commanded by a colonel of the Guards. As the colour scheme was still popular, the word “Grey” was allotted to the        

                     South London Volunteer Infantry Brigade, of which the West London Rifles formed a part.”

 

1905               Battalion accorded the right to adopt and use the Arms of the Borough of Kensington. Permission also received for the substitution  

                      of the sub-title “Kensington” for “West London Rifles”.

 

1908               13^th Battalion of the London Regiment formed of the amalgamation of the 4^th Middlesex  V.R.C. (Kensington Rifles) and the 2^nd      

                      (South) Middlesex V.R.C.

 

1909               “The Army Council gave permission for the new Battalion to be a “line” Battalion on condition that all rifle appointments should be   

                      discarded, and as a corollary it was authorised to carry colours.”

 

From "The Kensingtons" 13th London Regiment, By Sergeant O. F. Bailey and Sergeant H. M. Hollier

Edited 9 November , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[MBrockway]

Fantastic work Drew - many thanks!

Mark

 

[Drew-1918]

You are very welcome. Glad it is of some interest. 

[Drew-1918]

 

 

 

14th London Regiment

 

1798 The Loyal North Britons (disbanded 1816)

 

November 1859      London Scottish Rifle Volunteer Corps

 

Jan 1860        Recognised as a battalion under the title 15th Middlesex (London Scottish).

 

At this time the Battalion parades were held in Westminster Hall. Anticipating future developments, some of the new Volunteer battalions were adopting a gray uniform instead of the red of the regulars or the green of the Rifles, Lord Elcho was an advocate of this new departure. "A soldier," he said, "is a man hunter, neither more nor less; as a deer stalker chooses the least visible of colors, so ought a soldier to be clad." So he clothed his Battalion in hodden grey, relieved however by facings of royal blue. No tartan was admitted, nor indeed could any, except perhaps the Royal Stewart, ...

 

No. 1, the Highland Company, alone wore the kilt, doublet, and belted plaid. Their headdress, rather inconsistently perhaps, was the blue Glengarry bonnet with black cock's feather. The other companies wore blouse tunics and trews, and for headdress a grey peaked kepi, with blue and white diced band and black cock's feather. ...

 

 

In February 1861 one of the existing companies was formed into a second Highland Company [and so adopted the kilt] ... 

In 1866 a third company adopted the Highland dress. Sir Hope Grant, now Honorary Colonel, on inspecting the Battalion, expressed a hope that at his next inspection he would see all the companies wearing the kilt. "It is a becoming and manly dress," he said, "and there is none in which a body of men looks better." The change was not completed till 1872. 

 

In 1868, however, the kepi was replaced by the Glengarry bonnet, and the belted plaid was adopted for all companies.

 

In 1880 the Volunteer Corps of the London District were re-numbered, several Corps having ceased to exist The London Scottish, hitherto the 15th, now became the 7th Middlesex RV. 

 

 

The London Scottish in the Great War, Edited by L.Col. J. H. Lindsay

 

Edited 9 November , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

*Battalions that did not change back to a rifle cap (or other type of headdress), seem to have often retained the home service helmet. This one is from the volunteer days, but may have continued in use as was the case with other battalions. Illustration based on a photograph in the collection of 'Orasot', BCMB Forum. 

 

 

15th London Regiment

 

1798               Somerset House Volunteers

 

                      Bank of England Volunteers (Disbanded 1814)

 

1802               Volunteer Movement

 

1804               Civil Service represented in the above movements by two corps:

                      The Excise Corps

                      The Custom Corps

 

1859               Civil Service Volunteer Corps

 

1860               More ‘Civil Service’ Corps became involved and they all elected a new title of the ‘Civil Service Rifle Brigade’. 

 

                      The uniform as then fixed was similar in all main points to that so recently discarded. It was, perhaps, a little more sombre in

                      appearance, for the royal blue facings, silver lace, and Prince of Wales’ feathers were added at a later date (1863). [Also

                      included the shako. The uniform colour was then dark grey].

 

                      Authority for an amalgamation of the different corps was ultimately received from the War Office. This included the 27th Middlesex

                     (Inland Revenue), the 31st (Whitehall), and the 34th (Admiralty), which were to be amalgamated with the 21st Middlesex (Audit

                     Office and Post Office). The battalion was to be entitled “The Civil Service Corps of Rifle Volunteers,” with an authorised maximum

                     strength of 800.

 

                      Prince of Wales consented to accept the Honorary Colonelcy of the Regiment.

 

                      

                      1871, Wimbledon

 

1881               Proposal to change colour of uniform to scarlet. This was voted down by members who were thoroughly conservative.   

                      Helmet adopted in lieu of the shako.

 

1888               A decline in recruiting which many ascribed to the unattractive uniform.

 

1890               After a considerable time had been taken in arriving at a decision, it was resolved to discard the dark grey for a very light

                     grey, retaining the Royal blue facings and the black belts of the old uniform. The sanction of the Honorary Colonel and of the

                     War Office was obtained.

                      

1898              “The Prince of Wales’s Own” Added to title.

 

                       

                       1899, Wimbledon

 

1908               15th (County of London) Battalion the London Regiment "Prince of Wales' Own Civil Service Rifles"

From The History of the Prince of Wales' Own Civil Service Rifles 

Edited 23 November , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

 

*Tunic also sometimes had pockets similar in style to those of the LRB (1914). 

 

For the detail in this illustration I have drawn heavily on the wonderful QWR collection of 'Orasot' over at the British and Commonwealth Military Badge Forum. 

Edited 9 November , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

I can already see mistakes in the ones I have drawn-up so far, but will try and correct and also improve the images over time. 

[Drew-1918]

 

 

Edit: Updated with evidence from later posts regarding black trousers and Rifle green tunic.

 

Source for cap badge illustrations is the ‘Poplar & Stepney Rifles collection of ‘Jelly Terror’, BCMB Forum.

Edited 27 September , 2018 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

The above illustration is based on Mark's deductions in post #1. I wonder if the Rifle Brigade wore a slightly different shaped busby from the KRRC or is it rather that NCOs wore a style of busby more akin to that of officers?

[Drew-1918]

 

 

Edited 23 November , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

I cannot quite workout what full dress uniform the 19th London Bn. would have worn. If I am reading correctly, Mark has stated, 'Scarlet with green facings', but this seems strange to me considering that they sported a 'Rifle Brigade' derived cap badge. Perhaps I misunderstand some point. 

 

Updated with information from subsequent posts. The appearance of the dress forage cap is presumed from other evidence.  The collar badges are not facing pairs. Thanks to 'Jelly Terror' for his help with this.

 

 

Note: Were the green facings a nod to their 'Rifle' regiment past? 

Edited 28 November , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

 

Edited 9 November , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

Tbc

 

21st London Regiment

 

1859             The 1st Surrey RVC or South London Rifles.

                     First officers were commissioned into the unit on 14^th June.

                    The 3^rd Surrey RVC

                     First officers were commissioned into the unit on 26^th August.

 

1860            1^st Surrey RVC absorbed the 3rd Surrey RVC.

 

                   The uniform was Rifle green with red facings. 

 

1881           The 1st Surrey RVC became the 1st Volunteer Battalion of the East               

                   Surrey Regiment but did not change its title, [nor, presumably, its   

                   uniform]

 

1908           21st (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (1st Surrey    

                   Rifles)

 

From Wikipedia. Source: Anon, A War Record of the 21st London Regiment (First Surrey Rifles), 1914–1919

Edited 25 August , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

24th London Regiment

 

1860      19th Corps, Surrey Rifle Volunteers.

 

" ... The choice of uniform and equipment was settled by the members of each corps subject to the approval of the Lord-Lieutenant. 

... Whilst it was the intention that uniforms should be simple, this did not always turn out to be the case. 'A.W.H.L.' writing in the Volunteer Service Magazine of June 1894 recalls an amusing account of how when his Corps was formed the choice of uniform was a matter of violent discussion. 'Our little doctor thought uniform everything, and wished us to adopt one similar to that used by the line, but with marvelous variations which would increase its brilliancy. The drum major was a great source of anxiety. In appearance he would have been something between a field marshal and an african potentate if the doctor had carried the day- a large bearskin cap with a scarlet feather and a staff which might have served the aforesaid king as a Royal Sceptre were to be the principal items.' In the end the doctor's most sanguine hopes of glory were dashed to the ground, and this Corps was dressed in the slate gray with green facings. The doctor said later he had just passed a funeral looking more cheerful than the Corps!..." 

 

July 1880      Re-titled 8th Corps, Surrey Rifle Volunteers.

 

March-April 1882      Re-titled 8th Corps, The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment).

 

March 1883      Re-titled 4th Volunteer Battalion, The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment)

 

By a General Order of March 1st the Queen was graciously pleased to approve that the（2nd, 4th, 6th and) 8th Corps, Surrey Rifle Volunteers, were in future to be designated respectively the (1st, 2nd, 3rd and) 4th Volunteer Battalions, The Queen's (Royal West Surrey Regiment). The Corps had had a certain amount to do with The Queen's up to this date in that annual inspections had in the last few years been carried out by the officer commanding the 2nd Regimental District at Guildford, and the annual brigade drill had similarly in the last few years been usually held at Guildford. This Order confirmed the link of the Volunteer Corps with the Regular Regiment which had been made the previous year. It again meant that new badges, buttons, and other distinguishing features were required. The Battalion, as it now was, still remained clothed in the dark green as worn by many Volunteer units, it was indeed a very smart and soldier like dress. The question of whether the Battalion should change into scarlet became a hardy annual at all meetings of the Clothing Committee, and in fact it was never settled until the Territorial Force came into being in 1908 when with Government money it was done. It would of course have been an extremely expensive matter to buy at one fell swoop scarlet uniforms for over 700 men out of the capitation grant earned by the Corps ...

 

1895

On 21st December an important decision was taken at a meeting of the Officers of the Battalion with regard to the clothing; no action, was however, taken in the end, and this matter kept on recurring for a number of years. It was decided at this meeting after some discussion that the Battalion should in future be clothed in scarlet, and that the dark green uniform which had been worn for so many years should be discarded. Going into scarlet was in keeping with the Regular Battalions of the Regiment of which the Battalion formed part, but there must have been many to whom this change would have been a great wrench. At the meeting both Captain R. Foster, V.D., and Quartermaster and honorary Captain J. J. Russell, V.D., objected to the change. Colonel Haddan said the process would be incur and outlay of £2,600, but notwithstanding this considerable sum it was was decided at this meeting that the Battalion would go into scallet en bloc. It is evident that subsequently others, began to agree with  Captain Foster and Russell, for a year later a special Committee was set up to go into the matter thoroughly, and in the end, as already stated, nothing was done at all.

 

1896 

The Committee for Clothing, was ordered on 17 December to consider and report as to whether the Battion should remain as clothed as at present in green or to go into the uniform of the Regular Battalions of the Regiment. Their report was delivered next year.

 

1897

The Chairman of the Clothing Committee, Major and honorary Lieut.-Colonel J. J. Sexby, TD., delivered the report of the Committee on 18 February. After very careful consideration the committee had decided that they were best clothed as they were at present-in green ; the scarlet was said not to wear so long, and also was more difficult to keep clean. They also said that a change would not help in bringing in recruits. And so it was decided to remain in green, especially as there was a number of urgent alterations and repairs necessary to the headquarters which were going to cost over £ 450. 

 

 

1905

In Battalion Orders for April the Dress regulations were set out, 'as it having been noticed that a want of uniformity exists in the manner in which Clothing and Equipment is worn,'  These were: 

"MARCHING ORDER-OFFICERS: Drab serge service jacket and breeches, slouch hat, leggings, haversack, water bottle, sword and belt, and field glasses.

MARCHING ORDER-OTHER RANKS: Drab serge service jacket and trousers, slouch hat, and leggings, together with the whole of the valise equipment, put together and worn as laid down in the circular issued in June 1898, copies of which may be obtained from the Quartermaster.

DRILL ORDER-OFFICERS: Drab serge service jacket and cap, drab serge breeches, sword and belt.

DRILL ORDER-OTHER RANKS: Drab serge service jacket and trousers, slouch hat, belt, rifle and side arms, one pouch worn on the right side if ammunition is carried, or if the cape, great coat, or mess tin is worn on the back of the belt in all other cases it will worn on the belt, behind the centre of the back.

REVIEW ORDER-ALL RANKS: Same as drill order, except that the tunic and black cloth trousers will be worn. 

The cross belt is to be worn only when on Regimental or Brigade orderly duty, or with the tunic. Military boots should always be worn when in uniform. 

WALKING OUT: The tunic will only be worn on Sundays, when black gloves should invariably be worn, and the Regimental cane carried. Special orders for 'walking out' while in Camp will be issued on the spot. 

Medals: To be worn only with the tunic.

 

 

April 1908      Re-titled 24th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (The Queen's)

 

The Battalion was now clothed in khaki service jackets, trousers, putties and caps. A "T" was worn on the shoulder and was incorporated in the title which was abbreviated ... The Battalion also had scarlet full dress consisting of scarlet jacket, blue trousers and a blue cap. The badge of the Queen 's - the Lamb - was worn on both uniforms. Those possessing the old dark green uniform handed it in. 

 

 

 

Source: The Lambeth and Southwark Volunteers. A century of voluntary service in the Volunteers and Territorials, 1860-1960. Compiled by J. M. A. Tamplin

[MBrockway]

41 minutes ago, Drew-1918 said:

I cannot quite workout what full dress uniform the 19th London Bn. would have worn. If I am reading correctly, Mark has stated, 'Scarlet with green facings', but this seems strange to me considering that they sported a 'Rifle Brigade' derived cap badge. Perhaps I misunderstand some point. 

 

My source for that is the Army List, Drew, and I agree it is a little anomalous.

 

I think the root of this is the unit's genealogy:

 

    1860     29th Middlesex (North Middlesex) Rifle Volunteer Corps raised at St Pancras
    1880     renumbered 17th Middlesex (North Middlesex) RVC

    1881     became 4th Volunteer Battalion, The Middlesex Regiment
    1892     renumbered as 3rd VB, Middlesex Regt. on disbandment of existing 3rd VB
    1908     19th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (St. Pancras)
    1916     re-affiliated to Middlesex Regt

 

So despite the Rifle Brigade style cap badge, they were historically affiliated to the Middlesex Regt, a redcoat regiment.

 

 

All fine and dandy ... but, Ray Westlake in his rifle volunteers book, has 17th Mddx RVC's uniform as Green with Black facings (i.e. standard RB) changing to Green with Green facings in 1904.

 

Humph!

 

Mark

 

[Drew-1918]

Thanks very much for such an informative response. At any rate, it is all fascinating stuff! 

 

It is probably stating the obvious, but I think ultimately any illustration of these uniforms is not necessarily fixed, and it may require a couple of different illustrations for some battalions. I have even started to notice quite subtle changes in a small space of time for some battalions (for example 1910 to 1914). 

[Drew-1918]

 

 

1799                       Newington Surry Volunteers: “scarlet coats faced with blue … moulded pantaloons were white and ended in black half-      

                              gaiters… the whole costume was crowned with a bearskin helmet jauntily adorned by a plume of black and red.”

                              

                              Other parishes formed the 'Loyal Southwark Volunteers'. Two of these included St. George the Martyr and St. John

 

 

1859                       Southwark or 7^th Surrey Rifles: "In acknowledged right of descent the new formation took over the three colours of the ...        

                              Associations of sixty years before."

 

1870                       “… they obtained a new uniform similar to that of the 60^th Rifles.”

 

queensroyalsurreys.org.uk

 

1870s                     Affiliated with the 31st and 70th Regiment of Foot.

 

c. 1878                  7th Surrey Rifles amalgamated with the 26th Surrey Rifles

 

1887                      Name changed to 4th Volunteer Battalion, East Surrey Regiment.

 

1889-1899            “Commanded by Col. A. J. Bowen, V.D., a Surrey man, who again changed its uniform, this time to scarlet with white              

                             facings.”

 

1900                     “Under the command of Col. Thomas Tully, M.V.O., the white plumes, which had won for the regimental band the name   

                             of “The Kennington Guards,” were discontinued.”

 

1908                     23^rd Battalion, The London Regiment.

 

 

From The 23^rd London Regiment 1798 – 1919, compiled by former officers of the Regiment.

 

Edited 9 November , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update

[Drew-1918]

 

 

Edited 9 November , 2017 by Drew-1918
Update