MBrockway Posted 29 October , 2016 Share Posted 29 October , 2016 Pals, These three plates by Richard Caton Woodville Jr., appear in His Majesty's Territorial Army (Walter Richards, 1910) but unfortunately the specific London Regiment battalions are not explicitly identified. Instead the plates are frustratingly captioned as (L-R) City of London Battalions, then County of London Battalions twice. In the main topic over in Books and Book Reviews - His Majesty's Territorial Army - I have split the plates into enlargements of each man and asked for help confirming the battalions. [Edit: I've now moved this enlargements onto this topic as this is the better place to capture our conclusions on LR uniforms.] For my own purposes it would help me greatly with photo ID of riflemen in rifles tunics and busbies etc., but I suspect it would be of wider interest also. I think I've got most of them sorted, but could the uniform and London Regt Pals take a look please? Much appreciated! Cheers, Mark ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Edit: decided to move the content in the Books topic over here to the Uniforms sub-forum where it is more likely to be useful for the future. ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ Here are the uniform and facing colours for each battalion from the Army List ... Unit Tunic Facings 1st London Division 1st (City of) London Brigade 1 /LR (Royal Fusiliers) Scarlet Blue 2/LR (Royal Fusiliers) Scarlet Blue 3/LR (Royal Fusiliers) Scarlet Blue 4/LR (Royal Fusiliers) Scarlet Blue 2nd (City of) London Brigade 5/LR (London Rifle Brigade) Rifle Green Scarlet 6/LR (City of London Rifles) Rifle Green Scarlet 7/LR Scarlet Buff 8/LR (Post Office Rifles) Rifle Green Blue 3rd (County of) London Brigade 9/LR (Queen Victoria's) Rifle Green Scarlet 10/LR (Paddington Rifles); disbanded 1912 Rifle Green Black 10/LR (Hackney) Scarlet White 11/LR (Finsbury Rifles) Rifle Green Scarlet 12/LR (The Rangers) Rifle Green Scarlet 2nd London Division 4th (County of) London Brigade 13/LR (Kensington) Elcho grey Scarlet 14/LR (London Scottish) Hodden Grey Blue 15/LR (Civil Service Rifles) Elcho grey Blue 16/LR (Queen's Westminster Rifles) Elcho grey Scarlet 5th (County of) London Brigade 17/LR (Poplar and Stepney Rifles) Rifle Green Black 18/LR (London Irish Rifles) Rifle Green Light green 19/LR (St. Pancras) Scarlet Green 20/LR (Blackheath and Woolwich) Scarlet Black 6th (County of) London Brigade 21/LR (First Surrey Rifles) Rifle Green Scarlet 22/LR (Queen's) Scarlet Blue 23/LR Scarlet White 24/LR (Queen's) Scarlet Blue Unbrigaded (County of London) 25th Cyclist Bn., London Regiment. Elcho grey Scarlet 28/LR (Artists Rifles) Elcho grey White ____________________________________________________________________________________________________________ I'll kick off with my thoughts and with luck more expert Pals can fill in the gaps. Since the four Royal Fusiliers units wore the same redcoat and fusilier bearskin, the five City of London battalions are quite straightforward. All images are from copies of the plates on alamy.com. Working from left to right ... 5/LR (London Rifle Brigade) 6/LR (City of London Rifles) One of 1 to 4 LR (Royal Fusiliers) 8/LR (Post Office Rifles) 7/LR - the "Shiny Seventh" _________________________________________________________________________________ The next plate is not so easy ... Starting this time in the centre, this chap is clear - the white facings and the grecian head collar dogs give us ... 28/LR (Artists Rifles) Now we have established 13/LR (Kensington Rifles) wore the home service helmet, the chap on the right can only be ... 16/LR (Queen's Westminster Rifles) Returning to the left hand chap, khaki SD with blackened buttons and a curved TF shoulder title don't really help us much. The QWR's were in 2nd Division where the Artists' Rifles were also attached unbrigaded as divisional army troops. We could perhaps hazard a guess that this unit is also 2nd Div. 19th, 20th, 22nd, 23rd and 24th Londons were all redcoats, so would not have worn blackened rifles buttons. In 2nd Div that leaves 17/LR (Poplar and Stepney Rifles) and 21/LR (First Surrey Rifles), but if we widened our net to 1st Div, we would need to include 9/LR (QVR's), 11/LR (Finsbury Rifles) and 12/LR (The Rangers) who were all brigaded together in 3rd Bde and all of whom wore blackened buttons. If he's not one of those last three, then 3rd Bde are not represented in the plates at all, which might seem odd. I'm not sure we'll resolve this chap to be honest _________________________________________________________________________________ For the third plate, working from left to right ... 15/LR (Civil Service Rifles) ... compare to a L/Cpl in a 1st/15th LR (CSR) 1914 group photo Not so sure of the next one, but on the basis of what look like green cuffs and shamrock collar dogs, I think ... 18/LR (London Irish Rifles) Next is unmistakeable! 14/LR (London Scottish) I'm very unsure of this last one. Rifle Green tunic, but looking more like a patrol jacket than a rifles tunic, and no sign of the KRRC-style scarlet cuffs or plume that one would expect for the QVR, The Rangers or the Finsbury Rifles. There's also an unusual shape to the rifle busby, looks more rounded, rather like an artillery busby without a bag, though I have seen this shape used in Canadian rifle units. My best guess therefore is ... 17/LR (Poplar and Stepney Rifles) I did wonder about possibly 10/LR (Paddington Rifles) (disbanded 1912 - but these plates date from 1910), but they were in the 1st London Division and the other three units in this plate are all from 2nd London Division. I also considered 21/LR (First Surrey Rifles). They were in 2nd Div and wore rifle green, but with scarlet facings. They were affiliated to the East Surreys though, so I do not have as much info on them as I do on the KRRC and RB affiliated units. Their adjutant at the outbreak of the war was Captain Henry KENNEDY, 1/KRRC, who became their CO just before they went out to the Front, so strong links to the 60th despite the formal affiliation to the East Surreys. _________________________________________________________________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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