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Lights Out Trefonen


Ferndale
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Chris,

 

There is no mention of William in any casualty lists for the 8th Rifle Brigade, however I did note from his records that he returned to the 6th Rifle Brigade from a sick furlough on 13/11/17 and I am wondering if he came home through sickness. Unfortunately the casualty lists do not mention those sent home or suffering from sickness, although they did in the early days in France.

gbrmil1914r4pt2_138015-00794.jpg

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His M.I.D on records, just looking for that now

gbrmil1914r4pt2_138015-00787.jpg

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Can anyone help with more information on this particular soldier. I have been unable to establish when he first joined the Montgomeryshire Yeomanry or the  Welsh Regiment.

I am in touch with a family member who has his medals and his death penny but little else except family history, any info gratefully accepted.

Name:

Thomas John Ellis

Residence:

Treflach

Death Date:

22 Feb 1917

Death Place:

France and Flanders

Enlistment Place:

Welshpool

Rank:

Private

Regiment:

The Royal Welsh (Welch) Fusiliers

Battalion:

2nd Battalion

Regimental Number:

55192

Type of Casualty:

Died

Theatre of War:

Western European Theatre

Comments:

Formerly 2789, Mountgomeryshire Yeomanry.

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Hi Andy

The William Dyke information is interesting, I am trying to find more references locally (newspapers) to his desertion and return to his unit.

 

Chris

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Chris - re:Thomas Ellis, be aware that the Royal Welsh Fusiliers and the Welsh Regiment were different regiments.

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Medal Roll just in case

 

6749278966120448.png?k=-mbMAfSJnqXFuTqVjWpGyqhHRzE

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Regarding Ellis.

 

His first unit is the Montgomery Yeomanry, his number being 2789.

 

Mid November 1916 he is transferred to RWF 4th Reserve battalion and is given the number 11778. Mid December 1916 he is posted to France under this number and sent to an Infantry base depot. He is posted to the 2nd Bn and, because he was moving from a Territorial unit (the 4th Res Bn) to a Regular unit (the 2nd Bn) he is renumbered from the Regular number series as 55192. This 55192 number is in a block of around a hundred allocated alphabetically to the 2nd Bn. I have seen some records which indicate the transfer was on 23th December 1916 but need to find more to confirm. Their War Diary though does show they received a draft of 181 on the 22nd December. No doubt this batch amongst them but it needs firming up.

 

He died of pleurisy on 22 2 1917 according to his Soldiers Effects Register entry.

 

As Mark points out RWF and Welsh Regiment are different regiments.

 

edited:

I have reviewed some more records.

His timeline is

Nov/Dec 1914 enlists Mont Yeo as 2789. UK service.

Mid November 1916 trans to 4th Res RWF as 11778. UK

7th Dec 1916. To France & to an Infantry Base Depot

13th Dec 1916. Posted to 2nd Bn RWF as 55192

22 2 1917 Died of pleurisy

 

 

Edited by Hywyn
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Regarding John Thomas Jones 55230 2nd RWF 27 5 1917

 

He is in the same block as Thomas John Ellis.

 

Timeline for Jones is

 

Sept 1914. Enlist Mont Yeo 2422. UK service

Mid November 1916 trans to 4th Res RWF as 11822. UK

7th Dec 1916. To France & to an Infantry Base Depot

13th Dec 1916. Posted to 2nd Bn RWF as 55230

27 5 1917  Killed in action.

 

On that day the 2nd Bn took part in an attack. They met with heavy machine gun and rifle fire. Losses in the ranks were 19 killed, 76 wounded, 59 Missing.

 

Have you an address for him please?

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Regarding Alfred Francis 355146 25th RWF.

 

He has papers on Ancestry.

 

Enlisted Mont Yeo 2050 on 6 3 1914

With 1st 1st Mont Yeo to Egypt March 1916.

Transferred to RWF 25th Bn as 355146 March 1917

Battalion with Division when it moved from Egypt to France May 1918.

Died spotted fever 5 11 1918

Edited by Hywyn
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RWF Museum at Caernarfon Castle are running a project gathering photographs of RWF fallen.

 

If you have any photos of the 4 RWF men in your list can you let me know please?

Alfred Francis 355146

Thomas John Jones 55230

Thomas John Ellis  55192

Charles Frederick Rogers 9315

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On 27/10/2016 at 16:22, Ferndale said:

Hi Simon

Its interesting that he was mentioned in despatches. I had not found that out. This was recorded below in the Llangollen advertiser but not in the Border Counties Advertizer where his parents put a notice up about his death later.

Pte. William Dyke, Ghapei-1918-03-08Lane. Trefonen, charged by P.S. F. H. Jones with being an absentee from the Rifle Brigade, was remanded I to await an escort.

 

William Dyke, Rifle Brigade.

 

here's that newspaper report in a more legible format:

Llangollen Advertiser 1918-03-08 p.3 A.jpg

<snip>

Llangollen Advertiser 1918-03-08 p.3 B.jpg

 

[Source:Llangollen Advertiser Denbighshire Merionethshire and North Wales Journal, 08 Mar 1918, p.3]

 

His Service Record above also shows his arrest, court martial and detention.

 

Mark

 

 

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Hi All

Thanks for all the research and comments. Some really interesting and new information coming to light, as I said I am fairly new to the research side of soldiers and only currently have limited access to some sites.  Still finding out best routes etc. Anyway much of what I have discovered is covered on the projects website, please all take a look, feedback is much appreciated. The website is www.trefonen.org with the section on WW1 being under the heading lightsouttrefonen. The database section now has around ten soldiers live and viewable out of the 31.

Hywyn,  - T J Jones lived at Treflach Hall Farm, Treflach his brother was also killed Charles Edward Jones, he was in the Royal Irish Rifles (edit) and I have quite a lot of information on him already, I hope to have his pages live on the website today. As for photos I am still contacting relatives as I discover them to see if they have photos. Alfred Francis is nearly ready to go live and Lyn I would be very pleased if I could have digital photos of his medals and memorial plaque for his pages on the site and for the book? Are you a relative?

I have also found out speaking to T J Ellis's relation that his brother Griffith Ellis had emigrated to Australia and was wounded at Gallipoli. Both Ellis's were cousins to the two Jones brothers, John Thomas and Charlie Edward. Frederick George Rogers RWF is also live on the site. Peter George Morris (live on the site) and Ricard Parry Roberts were both Military Medal winners. Anyway many thanks for your all you help so far, it's really wonderful to have so much support available on a project that is very dear to my heart and has many future events planned as part of the Centenary Commemorations, 

Chris

Edited by Ferndale
wrong regiment mentioned
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A report of the award of the M.M. to Peter George Morris was published in the Llangollen Advertiser on 16 August 1918. It gives no detail of the action resulting in the award but may be useful: it gives some background on P. G. Morris.

 

Trefonen - P. G. Morris M.M. Llagollen Advertiser 16.8.1918.JPG

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41 minutes ago, Ferndale said:

Anyway much of what I have discovered is covered on the projects website, please all take a look, feedback is much appreciated. The website is www.trefonen.org with the section on WW1 being under the heading lightsouttrefonen. The database section now has around ten soldiers live and viewable out of the 31.

Chris

I put a live hyperlink to the project's website in Post #2 at the top of the topic.

 

The underlined names on the page are those with published research.  I also put these in green bold in the listing I extracted.  As Chris says though, more names are going live every day.

 

Here's the link again ...

 

On 25/10/2016 at 18:59, MBrockway said:

Before we all pile in to help here, be aware that the village has already made some headway with at least nine of these men and women.

 

See here: Lights Out Trefonen - Database

 

Great project by the way.

 

Well done!

Mark

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On 27/10/2016 at 16:02, Simon_Fielding said:

First Name:    W
Surname:    Dyke
Rank:    Rifleman
Service Number:    Z/32
Gallantry Awards:    Mentioned in Despatches

Gazette Info:    Gazette issue 30093. Mentioned in Despatches by Sir Douglas Haig. Deserving of special mention.
Gazette Date:    25/05/1917
Gazette Page:    5167

 

William Dyke's MiD comes under this heading ...

 

1917-05-15 Despatch - heading in LG 30072, p.4743.jpg

[Source: LG 30072 15 May 1917 p.4743]

 

Unfortunately this is one of the general lists of those deserving special mention not relating to a commander's despatch about a specific action/campaign.


The actual entry for Dyke's mention is here: LG 30093 25 May 1917 Second Supplement p.5167

 

The Rifle Brigade names in the list on that page have an unusual grouping - neither alphabetic nor rank - so Andy :ph34r: is investigating whether the adjacent RB names cast any light on why Dyke may have been mentioned.  Nothing found in the war diary as yet I'm afraid.

 

Mark

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Again Guys

 

The help you have given me so far has been invaluable. I now have 16 names live on the database website www.trefonen.org under Lights Out Trefonen

I also have some information pending for several of the remaining ones but some are really stumping me at the moment. In particular James Platt - Cheshire Yeomanry. I cant even find his Medal Index card but know that he died of Pneumonia at home on 12/11/18. Edward Dyke, Air Force. Other ones struggling with are John Samuel Burrows, George Edward Dyke, Thomas Carsley John Hugh Wooding all KSLI, Humphrey Jones, South Lancs, John Thomas Jones, RWF, Richard Parry Roberts MM machine Gun Corps. Any help on any of these would be much appreciated again!

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15 minutes ago, Ferndale said:

Hi Again Guys

 

The help you have given me so far has been invaluable. I now have 16 names live on the database website www.trefonen.org under Lights Out Trefonen

I also have some information pending for several of the remaining ones but some are really stumping me at the moment. In particular James Platt - Cheshire Yeomanry. I cant even find his Medal Index card but know that he died of Pneumonia at home on 12/11/18. Edward Dyke, Air Force. Other ones struggling with are John Samuel Burrows, George Edward Dyke, Thomas Carsley John Hugh Wooding all KSLI, Humphrey Jones, South Lancs, John Thomas Jones, RWF, Richard Parry Roberts MM machine Gun Corps. Any help on any of these would be much appreciated again!

#210229 Sgt Platt
His war gratuity was £12 15s

The odd '5s' is the give away - 5s increments only occurred where a man served only on home service, hence no medal index card. If he had served overseas he would have 10s increments.

 

He had 29 months qualifying service at the time of his death.

 

Craig

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Only George Edward Dyke in the effects records that I can see is:
 

#24193 George Edward Dyke, Shropshire Light Infantry
Died 5/10/18 in Greece
His war gratuity was £11 10

He had 31 months qualifying service at the time of his death.

 

Craig

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Only Thomas Carsley in the effects register that I can see;

 

#212273 Thomas Carsley, WCLC Lab Corps
Died 13 Feb 1919  in Salop
His war gratuity was £26.00

This would be 54 months qualifying service at the time of his death. He must had had overseas service at some point as otherwise his gratuity would not fit within the allowed amounts.

 

Craig

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Only John Hugh Wooding in the effects register that I can see;

 

#19739 John Hugh Wooding, Shropshire Light Infantry
Died 30 Aug 16 in France
His war gratuity was £3 (net)

This would be 12 months or less qualifying service at the time of his death.

 

Craig

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33 minutes ago, Ferndale said:

Other ones struggling with are ..........., John Thomas Jones, RWF, .

John Thomas Jones RWF has been identified in my post 35. You provided his address in Post 40.

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Only John Samuel Burrows in the effects register that I can see;

 

#22126 John Samuel Burrows, 7th Shropshire Light Infantry
Died 18 Aug 16 in France
His war gratuity was £3 (net)

This would be 12 months or less qualifying service at the time of his death.

 

Craig

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