John Scales Posted 18 October , 2016 Share Posted 18 October , 2016 I am trying to identify the unit of the Royal Horse artillery taht my Grandfather served in and hoped someone on this forum may be able to point me in the right direction. Medal Card 875473 BDR John Scales.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 October , 2016 Share Posted 18 October , 2016 (edited) Hi John, The number you quote above falls in the range allocated to the E Anglian Brigade, Royal Field Artillery(territorial) Service records survive for some others such as 875472 Chase who is shown as 1/1 East Anglian Bde and then became 272 Brigade RFA. Worth looking at these 'neighbouring' of records to see if they parallel your GF's career. What made you say Horse Artillery? I see his Medal Index Card says he was also Royal Garrison Artillery. Charlie962 Edited 18 October , 2016 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 18 October , 2016 Share Posted 18 October , 2016 (edited) There is a service record for 880837 Chew who was renumbered to 341237 on transfer from RFA to RGA London AA Defence in 1918. Worth a look at his record to see how a man can transfer from Field to Garrison Artillery. All this is in absence of a Service record for your GF. You have to do some guessing. Do you have any other history for him? Charlie962 Edited 18 October , 2016 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scales Posted 19 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2016 (edited) 10 hours ago, charlie962 said: There is a service record for 880837 Chew who was renumbered to 341237 on transfer from RFA to RGA London AA Defence in 1918. Worth a look at his record to see how a man can transfer from Field to Garrison Artillery. All this is in absence of a Service record for your GF. You have to do some guessing. Do you have any other history for him? Charlie962 Hi Charlie, Thanks for your response. I believe my father (who has past) thought he was in the Royal Horse Artillery. The E Anglian Brigade, Royal Field Artillery(territorial) makes sense as he was from Great Yarmouth (Norfolk). Sadly I have one photo and his medals Edited 19 October , 2016 by John Sclaes Add Photo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 19 October , 2016 Share Posted 19 October , 2016 Hi John, Welcome to the Forum. I've just had a quick look at some Medal Index Cards for others with similar numbers. George W Lovick Royal Field Artillery 1544, 875470 Arthur Cushings Royal Field Artillery, 5C Res, Brigade 875471 Frederick H Chase Royal Field Artillery 1546, 875472 John Scales Royal Artillery, Royal Garrison Artillery 875473, 341235 George H Wright Royal Field Artillery 1548, 875474 Albert Dent Royal Field Artillery 1549, 875475 Bertram S Clayton Royal Field Artillery 1550, 875476 George Lemmon Royal Field Artillery 1551, 875477 Those that have an earlier 4 figure number disembarked in France on November 16, 1915 and qualified for the 1914-15 Star. This ties in with them being in 1/1st East Anglian Brigade (272nd Brigade RFA) as Charlie has mentioned. However, your grandfather does not appear to have this medal and his earlier number of 1547 doesn't appear either. As renumbering occurred in early 1917, it follows that he did not serve overseas until then. He would have been in the 2nd or 3rd Lines of the 1st East Anglian Brigade which were based at home in England but provided drafts for the 1st line. 272nd Brigade RFA served in Egypt from February 1916 but in actual fact he could have been posted anywhere once given his six figure number which was retained until he joined the RGA in 1918. He could easily have been posted to a Royal Horse Artillery in France or Egypt but without a surviving service record or other evidence it is impossible to tell. Incidentally, the enlistment dates for those above all seem to be as volunteers in early November 1914. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scales Posted 19 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2016 Thanks David, I assume to have received the medals he would have had to have served overseas in a t war zone? Is this correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 19 October , 2016 Share Posted 19 October , 2016 David, you are one of the real experts on this subject. I note that there are several service records surviving in the 3412?? series which seem to show transfers into RGA (Essex&Suffolk)Territorials in July/Aug 1918. They come sometimes from RFA but 2 come from infantry. They seem to have been posted to UK Anti Aircraft Defence as a result of previous injuries which perhaps rendered them unsuitable for further service abroad? John, was your GF wounded in 1917 ? Charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 19 October , 2016 Share Posted 19 October , 2016 John, you should have a look through the excellent site LongLongTrail (top left of this screen is the link from GWF). A mine of information on units and tracing soldiers. For example here is the section on Medal entitlements Charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 19 October , 2016 Share Posted 19 October , 2016 Charlie, I haven't looked closely at the RGA numbers, only enough to determine it was indeed Anti Aircraft Defence in 1918. Is the unit they are all posted to connected to the Essex & Suffolk RGA or is it just Regular RGA (i.e. different AA units)? I don't know enough about this side of the artillery but if it is like the RFA it may just be that their transfer was handled by Warley Record Office. Also anyone classified in Category C(i) would be posted to a Garrison or Provision unit at Home. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admin RussT Posted 19 October , 2016 Admin Share Posted 19 October , 2016 7 hours ago, David Porter said: Those that have an earlier 4 figure number disembarked in France on November 16, 1915 and qualified for the 1914-15 Star. This ties in with them being in 1/1st East Anglian Brigade (272nd Brigade RFA) as Charlie has mentioned. However, your grandfather does not appear to have this medal and his earlier number of 1547 doesn't appear either. As renumbering occurred in early 1917, it follows that he did not serve overseas until then. Hi David (and others) Perhaps if I may, just a general caution based on my meagre experience looking at TF men's records (including TF artillery). I have seen plenty of TF records for men with VM/BWM medals awarded having just their 6-digit TF re-numbers on them even though they went overseas well before the TF re-numbering took effect. So I would tentatively suggest it does not necessarily follow that a man (with just a 6-digit number on his VM/BWM MIC/medal roll/medal) was sent overseas until after re-numbering occurred in early 1917. Of course, if he was not entitled to a 1914-1915 Star, then one at least knows he must have gone after the cut-off date (on or after 01/01/1916) for that medal. Example: William J Williams RGA TF 308075 (MIC and Medal Roll). His service records show his earlier number was 290 and he landed in France on 8th February 1916. Regards Russ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 19 October , 2016 Share Posted 19 October , 2016 1 minute ago, RussT said: Hi David (and others) Perhaps if I may, just a general caution based on my meagre experience looking at TF men's records (including TF artillery). I have seen plenty of TF records for men with VM/BWM medals awarded having just their 6-digit TF re-numbers on them even though they went overseas well before the TF re-numbering took effect. So I would tentatively suggest it does not necessarily follow that a man (with just a 6-digit number on his VM/BWM MIC/medal roll/medal) was sent overseas until after re-numbering occurred in early 1917. Of course, if he was not entitled to a 1914-1915 Star, then one at least knows he must have gone after the cut-off date (on or after 01/01/1916) for that medal. Example: William J Williams RGA TF 308075 (MIC and Medal Roll). His service records show his earlier number was 290 and he landed in France on 8th February 1916. Regards Russ I'd agree with Russ - I've seen similar cases where the earlier T.F. number has been absent from records, with the associated difficulties. Some 6 digit numbers do though appear on records dated in late 1916 rather than early 1917. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scales Posted 19 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 19 October , 2016 It would appear there is a Service Record (maybe) WO 363/S703 - Scales Arthur - Scales John F but do not know how to access Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 20 October , 2016 Share Posted 20 October , 2016 John, that just links to the National Archives catalogue entry for the microfilm of records that survived the burning in WW2. These records have been digitized and are available on Ancestry, Findmypast or at the NA itself - if you click on "Details" it tells you this. I've looked on Findmypast and your grandfather's record has not survived in this series or the so called Pension series. Russ and Craig, thanks for the clarification - call that a senior moment. I have been looking through a bunch of records lately where the earlier number was very useful in filling a gap. Of course, it can follow that there was an overseas date in 1916 and frustrating if that is left off the medal index card. From November 22, 1916 the TF record offices made provisional assignment of the new six figure numbers for the artillery, but the process was not completed until February 15, 1917 as several cross checks had to be made. This was due to a lot of changes happening or having happened and the record offices being slow to catch up with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 20 October , 2016 Share Posted 20 October , 2016 Just to recap on my previous post re RGA numbers, there is reference for most of the following of "compulsory Trf to RGA..... auth WO letter 3938 AG6 3/7/18" (or memo similar date) Garrison Artillery service nos 3412?? Trf>RGA initially to: 341215 Wilkinson 24Aug18 AA DefenceCmdDover ex RFA 341219 Holmes 6Aug18 Luton AA CentLondonCmnd gassed1917 ex RFA 341223 Pike 1Jul18 Swanage AA DefenceCommand gassed1917 ex RFA 341231 Burrell 21Aug18 Edinburgh AA Edinburgh then 4Depot,Ripon ex Bedfords/ScotRifles 341234 Slater 14Aug18 Edinburgh AA Reserve ex Gloucesters 341235 Scales ??????????????? 341237 Chew 30Aug18 HighWycombe AA CentLondonCmnd ex RFA 3/2EAnglian, C4ResBde 341251 Clark 20Nov18 Catterick 2SgArtyResBde gassed 1917 ex RFA Since all the above come from Pension Claims of course they are going to have been wounded or impaired. There are quite a number of others in this sequence with SWBs but no Service Record. They are marked on FMP as RGA Essex&Suffolk. I cannot check further if they were AA. So I suggest it is most probable that this range was allocated to Compulsory transfers of men from other units no longer fit to serve abroad. All seem to end up in AA units.(except 341251 ?!) So,as others have cautioned above, indicative but not conclusive. May give a trail to follow up. Good luck, John Charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scales Posted 20 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 20 October , 2016 Thank you all so much for your assistance, it has provided a lot of insight Regard John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Scales Posted 28 October , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2016 (edited) The plot thickens. I have found his service record on ansestry can any provide explaination on differing corp. http://person.ancestry.com.au/tree/104924523/person/230042814515/facts. http://interactive.ancestry.com.au/1219/30600_192270-00086/1761208?backurl=http://person.ancestry.com.au/tree/104924523/person/230042814515/facts/citation/760150340060/edit/record Medal card (I checked engraving on medals) is definately his and so is the service record. Edited 28 October , 2016 by John Scales Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Porter Posted 28 October , 2016 Share Posted 28 October , 2016 John, Your links are not useful to anyone with an Ancestry UK subscription as your subscription appears to be Australian If this is someones tree then caution is required for the information contained therein. Anyone adding information to trees on Ancestry may have made a genuine mistake. Perhaps you could provide more details of what you have found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now