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Remembered Today:

Pte William Smith, 41487, Scottish Rifles, no gratuity for home TF service?


rolt968
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Pte William Smith, 41487, 9 Scottish Rifles was killed in action on 3 May 1917. His gratuity suggests that he enlisted less than 12 months before.

 

However I have good evidence (local newspapers) and indeed a photograph to indicate that he was mobilised with the Fife and Forfar Yeomanry in 1914. He may have been a pre-war yeoman or an August 1914 recruit.  I suspect the former, but his obituary says he was "one of the first to join up" - I don't trust this last as the obituaries were tending to become formulaic by 1917.

 

He did not opt to serve overseas (local paper again) and served in 2/1 F & FY. I do not know how he came to be serving in a Scottish Rifles service battalion. I suspect that he was time expired or on "special leave" and was conscripted which would match the enlistment date suggested by the gratuity.

 

Should there have been any gratuity for his home service with F & F Y?

 

Roger M

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10 minutes ago, rolt968 said:

Pte William Smith, 41487, 9 Scottish Rifles was killed in action on 3 May 1917. His gratuity suggests that he enlisted less than 12 months before.

 

However I have good evidence (local newspapers) and indeed a photograph to indicate that he was mobilised with the Fife and Forfar Yeomanry in 1914. He may have been a pre-war yeoman or an August 1914 recruit.  I suspect the former, but his obituary says he was "one of the first to join up" - I don't trust this last as the obituaries were tending to become formulaic by 1917.

 

He did not opt to serve overseas (local paper again) and served in 2/1 F & FY. I do not know how he came to be serving in a Scottish Rifles service battalion. I suspect that he was time expired or on "special leave" and was conscripted which would match the enlistment date suggested by the gratuity.

 

Should there have been any gratuity for his home service with F & F Y?

 

Roger M

Less than 6 months home service(1) did not qualify for a gratuity unless a man had overseas service - the overseas service removed any time limits.

 

More than one period of service should have been amalgamated (2) however I have seen records where an earlier period has been missed - which would appear to be the case here (although there's sometimes another entry hiding under ancestry's 'indexing')

Craig

(1) "When his total war service does not amount to more than 6 months a soldier will not be eligible for the gratuity unless a portion of the service has been rendered overseas. "

(2) " A soldier who has rendered war service in more than one engagement will not entitled to a minimum gratuity in respect of separate engagement. The gratuity will be assessed in such cases on the soldier’s total war service. Former service which the soldier denied when joining under a subsequent engagement will be allowed to reckon. "

Edited by ss002d6252
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@rolt968, I've just had a second look and I'm still indecisive.

It looks like both #41462 & #41492 were allocated Jan 17 at Etaples so it looks like your man was part of a draft from a depot.

 

Although this period alone would have qualified him for the basic gratuity he clearly had some earlier service in the UK from his second period.

He had 5 months in 1917 in France so the longest he could have had as 'counted' service was a further 7 months. Without knowing how long he either served in England from his 2nd period or how long he served in his first period we can't say if the first period was included or not.

Do you have any idea how long his first period may have been ?

Craig

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2 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

@rolt968, I've just had a second look and I'm still indecisive.

It looks like both #41462 & #41492 were allocated Jan 17 at Etaples so it looks like your man was part of a draft from a depot.

 

Although this period alone would have qualified him for the basic gratuity he clearly had some earlier service in the UK from his second period.

He had 5 months in 1917 in France so the longest he could have had as 'counted' service was a further 7 months. Without knowing how long he either served in England from his 2nd period or how long he served in his first period we can't say if the first period was included or not.

Do you have any idea how long his first period may have been ?

Craig

Thanks for the work so far Craig.

 

I am fairly sure that he appeared in the list of "men serving" in the Brechin Advertiser until the paper abandoned the "men serving page" in favour of who had just enlisted, casualties and features on men in the same family serving. Unfortunately I didn't take note of which was the last edition in which the "men serving" page appeared. I'm fairly sure it lasted for at least a year (to at least September 1915).

 

I have been struggling with Frank Smith's two periods of service for a few years. It's only when I checked his enlistment date from the gratuities that I became sure (although I had suspected) that there were two separate periods.

 

There are a number of cases of ex Fife and Forfar Yeomen before Fife Military Service Tribunals in the summer/autumn of 1916. There is also at least one unnamed case before an Angus Tribunal (which I have not been able to track down again).

 

Roger M

 

Additional thought:

Come to think of it. His first service must have been at least a year? If he was a pre-war territorial, wouldn't he have been retained for a year after his term expired?

 

 

 

 

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Come to think of it. His first service must have been at least a year? If he was a pre-war territorial, wouldn't he have been retained for a year after his term expired?

In theory to Aug 15 (at the earliest) although I've seen men go in June/Jul 15.  That's assuming he wasn't medically let go.

Craig

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