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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Trying to identify relative who was KIA with photo using uniform


JMakoul
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Hello and thank you for your time in reading this. My great-grandfather Herbert J Brown was badly wounded while serving in the Royal Artillery. He had several brothers that also served. Two of them were killed. One at the Somme on Sept. 15 1916 (Ernest Arthur Brown) 2nd Gren Guards and the other brother killed was William Henry Brown who was killed on June 16, 1917 and is buried in a British cemetery in France. My mother game me a box full of old photos, some are of soldiers. I have the ones of my great-grandfather however I am wondering if one could be of one of the brothers who was killed. Please see the attached photo...there is a ribbon on his jacket...could this have been a mid-war photo? William Henry Brown was 34 when he was killed. There is a photo of him in "Laindon in the Great War"...if you google the book and his name the page and photo will come up. However I am having trouble matching my photo with the one in the book...any help would be appreciated. 

post-106187-0-15502000-1393808300.jpg

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The medal ribbon appears to be that of the 1914 or 1914-15 Star, so the photo cannot be of Ernest Arthur Brown killed in 1916 since the 1914 Star was not authorised until April 1917 and the 1914-15 Star was not authorised until 1918, and the 5th Aug.-22nd Nov 1914 bar was not sanctioned by the King until 1919 (the bar would be denoted by a rosette affixed to the medal ribbon.

The photo could be of William Henry Brown killed on 16 June 1917. What Regiment was he in? There does not appear to be a William Henry, or W. H., Brown listed by the C.W.G.C. When this can be ascertained it will be possible to check his medal index card to see if he was entitled to the Star.

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Hello, at first glance, zooming in, looks like RGA or RFA shoulder titles, I agree with Harrybrook with regard to the ribbon, Chris :-)

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It certainly looks like a 14 or 14-15 Star ribbon.  In black and white the central white colour always seems to almost take over the ribbon - where the blending of the red and blue sections seem to defeat the technology!

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It states in the entry for William Henry Brown in "Laindon in The Great War" that he was entitled only to the British War Medal and Victory Medal, so the photo is not of William Henry Brown. This entitlement is confirmed by his medal index card which is in the name of just William Brown, as is the C.W.G.C. record.

Edited by HarryBrook
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Good Morning All.

Just to let you know that the Ribbon for the 1914 Star otherwise known as the Mons Star was issued to some troops by mistake,infact there is an Army Order which states; It has been brought to notice that individuals are wearing the ribbon of the 1914 Star award who are not entitled the award ect. and basically it had to be sorted out. I do believe it  possible that that particular award was and could be issued in error because when you look at it logically it was the only time an award issued on a mass scale while the conflict was still ongoing. Usually awards (Ribbons with the Medals) are issued after the conflict. I know other more prestigious awards like the VC MM DCM and other similar awards were issued during the war. If you need a copy of the Army Order PM me please

Kind Regards Andy 

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Thank you for your time and responses. Could you tell me what is the best online source to look up British service records?

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Find my Past, has indexed the service and pension records far better than ancestry. They have also indexed an awful lot of 'floating' sheets that ancestry skipped over. Both are available free in UK libraries.

 

For Service and Pension files only

 

TEW

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Ancestry or Find my Past.

I think some people believe that FMP is slightly better, but I only have Ancestry myself.

You may not realise that about 75% of WW1 soldiers service papers were destroyed in the London Blitz?

 

BillyH.

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There is some error as regards issue dates of 1914 Star ribbon creeping in already here. In a nutshell, the 1914 Star wasn't authorized until very late 1917, with first issue of ribbon to those entitled to it from early/mid 1918. The 1914-15 Star was not authorized until very late 1918, with first issue of ribbon to those entitled to it from early 1919. Whoever is in this photo was still alive at least as late as early 1918:

 

 

Edited by Andrew Upton
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9 hours ago, andrew pugh said:

Good Morning All.

Just to let you know that the Ribbon for the 1914 Star otherwise known as the Mons Star was issued to some troops by mistake,infact there is an Army Order which states; It has been brought to notice that individuals are wearing the ribbon of the 1914 Star award who are not entitled the award ect. and basically it had to be sorted out. I do believe it  possible that that particular award was and could be issued in error because when you look at it logically it was the only time an award issued on a mass scale while the conflict was still ongoing. Usually awards (Ribbons with the Medals) are issued after the conflict. I know other more prestigious awards like the VC MM DCM and other similar awards were issued during the war. If you need a copy of the Army Order PM me please

Kind Regards Andy

 

Hi Andy,

 

Off topic and mentioned for completeness - the Ribbons for the WW2 Africa Star & 1939/43 (later changed to 39/45) Star were issued 1943/44 - also Canadian Voluntary Service Medal Ribbon was issued 1944.

 

Regards

 

Steve Y

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19 hours ago, tullybrone said:

Off topic and mentioned for completeness - the Ribbons for the WW2 Africa Star & 1939/43 (later changed to 39/45) Star were issued 1943/44 - also Canadian Voluntary Service Medal Ribbon was issued 1944.

 

Off topic, yes, but certain to be news to a lot of readers here!

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Hi All

I know for a fact that soldiers of the 2nd Battalion Highland Light Infantry received their 1914 Star ribbons in March 1918 while at Metz en Cultuer. and the 2nd Battalion Ox & Bucks received theirs about the same time.

 

Regards Andy

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