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Remembered Today:

Private J.W. Hughes 8148


Richard P
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Hi I wonder if anyone can help me.

I am currently researching my Great Uncle Private John William Hughes 8148 of the 2nd Btn South Wales Borderers 'A' Company.

So far I have found out that he died of wounds on the 19th of August 1918, & is buried at La Kreule Military Cemetery, Nord, France.

I visited his grave in 2014,it was a very moving experience.

I have a copy of his Medal Card, which shows that the Theatre of war entered into was 5H - Balkans plus it shows the 3 Medals he

was awarded & his date of death.

I contacted the Museum at Brecon, who were very helpful. They told me that the 5H indicated Tsingtao (China) & that Balkans (Gallipoli)

must have been added later.

They  told me that he was Hospitalised in Malta on the way to Gallipoli. He eventually must have re-joined his unit, but not sure when.

They also told me that he was wounded in Gallipoli, but again no details as to location, dates ,times etc.

They had no attestation details for him.

I believe that he may have been a Regular Soldier & may have enlisted in Leeds as the family were living there, but again not sure.

He went on to fight in France, where he finally was wounded & died.

I have looked at the War Diaries for the 2nd Btn, & by my working out he may have been wounded at the Battle for OUTERSTEENE RIDGE,

about the 18th of August 1918, but this is only a theory, as no names are given for 'Other Ranks' who were killed or wounded.

This area would be close to where he is buried.

Any help / information / details would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks.

Richard P.

 

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Richard

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

8142 William Henry Douglas enlisted 2 7 1903

8149 George Franklin enlisted 13 7 1903

 

This gives you an idea of when JWH enlisted.

 

I note you say you have the Medal Card and that gives his entry to theatre as 23 9 1915.

 

The Medal Rolls for the 1914-15 Star however has the date altered to 23 9 1914 and is endorsed as 'verified'. This has obviously not been transferred to the Medal Card.

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5119/41804_636897_11388-00184?pid=5314875&backurl=//search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DkSN7%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DIWOServiceMedalAwardRolls%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26gsln%3Dhughes%26gsln_x%3D1%26_F8007A65%3D8148%26_F8007A65_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3Da63%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D1%26h%3D5314875%26recoff%3D7%2078%26ml_rpos%3D2&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=kSN7&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true

 

The Medal Roll for the BWM & Victory give his battalion as 2nd Battalion

http://interactive.ancestry.co.uk/5119/41629_626640_11644-00066?pid=2868694&backurl=//search.ancestry.co.uk//cgi-bin/sse.dll?_phsrc%3DkSN10%26_phstart%3DsuccessSource%26usePUBJs%3Dtrue%26indiv%3D1%26db%3DIWOServiceMedalAwardRolls%26gss%3Dangs-d%26new%3D1%26rank%3D1%26MS_AdvCB%3D1%26gsln%3Dhughes%26gsln_x%3D1%26_F8007A65%3D8148%26_F8007A65_x%3D1%26MSAV%3D2%26uidh%3Da63%26pcat%3D39%26fh%3D0%26h%3D2868694%26recoff%3D7%2086%26ml_rpos%3D1&treeid=&personid=&hintid=&usePUB=true&_phsrc=kSN10&_phstart=successSource&usePUBJs=true#?imageId=41629_626640_11644-00066

 

The Long Long Trail gives the following info on the 2nd Bn SWB

2nd Battalion
August 1914 : in Tientsin, China.
23 September 1914 : landed at Lao Shan Bay for operations against the German territory of Tsingtao.
4 December 1914 : embarked at Hong Kong, landing at Plymouth 12 January 1915.
12 January 1915 : came under orders of 87th Brigade, 29th Division. Moved to Rugby.
17 March 1915 : embarked at Avonmouth for operations at Gallipoli. Landed at Cape Helles 25 April 1915.
11 January 1916 : moved to Egypt and went on to France, arriving Marseilles 15 March 1916.

 

See here re Medal Roll Codes for theatre of war

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/soldiers/how-to-research-a-soldier/campaign-medal-records/how-to-interpret-a-campaign-medal-index-card/medal-roll-theatre-codes/

 

This is what it says for codes starting 5

 

5 Asiatic Theatre
a) Mesopotamia and Bushire
b ) South West Arabia
c) Aden
d) Muscat (Musquat)
e) Seistan
f) Tochi Valley
g) Hafiz
h) Katlang, Rastam and Swati
i) Landekai Ridge
j) Perim
k) Kalat
l) Katchin Hills
m) Tsing-Tau (note: this has been observed as 5h on medal index cards for some men of the 2nd South Wales Borderers)

 

 

 

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He is on a South Wales Borderers wounded list in the Western Mail dated 31st May 1915.

 

Find My Past link

http://search.findmypast.co.uk/bna/viewarticle?id=bl%2f0000104%2f19150531%2f184

 

The general consesus is that there is 4 to 6 weeks from event to list being published but I'm not entirely sure if it might be a bit less in 1915.

 

Given they landed 25th April he was been wounded within the first couple of weeks? Have you got the War Diary for April/May 1915?

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Hello Hywyn Thank you so much for filling in some of the missing gaps for me. It is all very interesting. I don't have the war diary for the dates that you have shown. Can you explain a bit more about the medal roll card DATES?  Kind regards  Richard P

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What I mean is that the Medal Card states he first entered a theatre of war in September 1915 whilst the actual Roll (of which the Card is merely an index) states September 1914. The date 23 9 1914 ties in with 2nd SWB landing at Tsing-Tau. I suppose I was under the impression you may have thought his war didn't start (in terms on entering a theatre) until he landed at Gallipoli in September 1915.

 

Do you have access to Ancestry to see the Rolls from my links?. If not and you wish to see them then send me your email via PM (hover cursor over my name on the left and click on the envelope marked message)

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Hello again Hywyn

Thank you for explaining the medal card September 1915 date. I wondered why an earlier date wasn't shown but I thought

that might be something to do with the fact that he was already serving in the Army before that date .Details like this trip us

inexperienced researchers up !

With regard to Ancestry I don't have access, & would appreciate being able to see the Rolls from your links.

I will send you my details.

Thank you again.

Kind regards

Richard P

 

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Hello excuse me jumping in but have been following this thread as have an interest in SWB, I wondered why nobody has mentioned the info on the back of the Medal

Card, and has it got any relovence, if not could some learned person explain what it relates to. Also does anybody know if SWB museum have the Attestation papers for SWB. 

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Hi TTracer44.

On the back of Private J.W.Hughes medal card is marked 'Correspondence'. Written underneath is a reference to notify Recs Shrewsbury returns list of amendments 4/2/20.

I'm pretty sure this would be relevant as yours will be & that some knowledgeable person on this forum will be able to explain it.

Kind regards.

Richard P

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