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nicklid

war diary location abbreviations

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nicklid

I have acquired the war diaries for the 11th Essex battalion and have confirmed that my Gt Uncle (Norman Herbert Lidington) was indeed amongst the battalion as  a 2nd Ltnt (he was entered in the diary as killed that day). I am researching his whereabouts the day he died on the 15th Sept 1916. This appears to be around the Quadrilateral on the Ginchy- Morval road.  All good so far. However the war diaries show movements and times on this day well enough, from trench to gully etc but there are abbreviations added to this that mean nothing to me. Example: Battalion moved up into gully T. 26. a & c.     Another:  They deployed at T. 21. a to attack in a northerly direction.

Can anyone shed light on what these mean as I am trying now to find the trenches and places the 11th Essex were in on the 15th sept from these entries in the war diary?

Thanks in advance

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ss002d6252

They're trench map squares - not sure which particlur map was you need but someone will come along and confirm it.

Craig

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Don Regiano

Have a look at the map here: http://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=15&lat=50.0163&lon=2.8453&layers=101464777&b=1

 

You will see squares T 26 and T 21.  The four smaller squares within 21 and 26 are referenced a - b - d - c in a clockwise rotation from the top left.  Thus a and c are the two left hand squares within T 26 and a is the top left square in T 21.  The quadrangle is actually defined by the red lines in the bottom left hand corner of T 15 c. and bottom right hand corner of T 14. d.

 

I don't know where the 11 Essex where exactly but, if it helps, the red line from the bottom right corner of the Quadrangle heading towards Bouleaux Wood is Bully Trench.

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
20 minutes ago, Don Regiano said:

The four smaller squares within 21 and 26 are referenced a - b - d - c in a clockwise rotation from the top left.

No they're not clockwise.

Top left is -a, top right is -b,

bottom left is -c, bottom right is -d

21 minutes ago, Don Regiano said:

Thus a and c are the two left hand squares

That's correct.

 

 

The actual Sheet No, is 57c. If you look at the Macmaster University site, you can see and download any of the sheets there:

http://library.mcmaster.ca/maps/ww1/ndx5to40.htm

 

So, the full reference for the square containing the word "Guillemont" on that map is:

Sheet 57c.T.19.d

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Don Regiano

Funny clock you have Dai Bach?

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Dai Bach y Sowldiwr
31 minutes ago, Don Regiano said:

Funny clock you have Dai Bach?

Just seen that you put the order of the letters out of sequence-a-b-d-c.

Yes, that sequence is clockwise.

Sorry.

 

 

map.jpg

Edited by Dai Bach y Sowldiwr

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Kiwi Bob
6 hours ago, nicklid said:

I have acquired the war diaries for the 11th Essex battalion and have confirmed that my Gt Uncle (Norman Herbert Lidington) was indeed amongst the battalion as  a 2nd Ltnt (he was entered in the diary as killed that day). I am researching his whereabouts the day he died on the 15th Sept 1916. This appears to be around the Quadrilateral on the Ginchy- Morval road.  All good so far. However the war diaries show movements and times on this day well enough, from trench to gully etc but there are abbreviations added to this that mean nothing to me. Example: Battalion moved up into gully T. 26. a & c.     Another:  They deployed at T. 21. a to attack in a northerly direction.

Can anyone shed light on what these mean as I am trying now to find the trenches and places the 11th Essex were in on the 15th sept from these entries in the war diary?

Thanks in advance

Hello Niklid

These are map grid references. I have a copy of the map which covers map references M 31 to T 26. The latter being at the bottom left corner. Ref T 19 includes the town of Guillemont, Ref  T 14 shows Ginchy. Ref T 21 is the square above T 27 and it includes Leuze Wood in the bottom left corner.  T 27 seems to be near Coombles but it is in the next square which is not on the map. T 26 shows Wedge Wood in the bottom left corner.

My map was annotated by a New Zealand officer and includes trench locations in places in which the Kiwis served, but it does not show British trenches. I will make a copy of the sections of the map of interest to you asap.

You should be able to view the map in any British war museum or the like.

 

Cheers Kiwi Bob

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Don Regiano
15 hours ago, Dai Bach y Sowldiwr said:

Just seen that you put the order of the letters out of sequence-a-b-d-c.

Yes, that sequence is clockwise.

Sorry.

 

 

map.jpg

 

 

No problems Dai.  You got me thinking I had better take more water with what I had been drinking yesterday!  If I had taken more time in the first place I would have probably done top left, top right etc to make it plainer instead of concentrating on the letters which weren't on the map I quoted.

 

Regards.

 

Reg

 

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John_Hartley

Like Don Regiano, I generally reckon the maps on the NLS site to be the most useful - specifically because it allows you to zoom in and change the view between the trench map and the modern view (including a merge, so you can see one overlayed on the other). Really helpful if you're ever visiting an area.

Edited by John_Hartley

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