Chandler Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 This is my first post so I may have got protocol wrong and if so please accept my apologies. I was recently scanning what I thought were my Grandfathers photo albums and it turns out some were my Great Grandfather's. In there are two photos with the monikers Living and Dead underneath. Above Dead is a wreath stating "Horace from Dad and Mum" on a cross in a field with other crosses. The other (Living) shows a man against a cabin in what look like Devonshire regiment Cap Badge and Collar Badges and the insignia of a 2nd Lieutenant. My Grandfather has since passed and I know it's not my Great Grandfather (Francis Organ) as he was in the Navy and lived until 1963. Francis was from Stoke Damerel in Devon along with his wife Gladys Booley. I have had ancestry for some time but never able to get anything about my Great Grandfather so before I take out another subscription has anyone got any idea on where to start? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 Chandler: can you zoom in and enlarge the cap badge in the first photo? It might help give a clue as to regiment. He's a Second Lieutenant of some description, although he may well have a more senior rank by the time of his death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MelPack Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 On the assumption that it is the Devonshires and the soldier was killed as a subaltern or a Lieutenant then there are two possible candidates: Horace Liberty Rundle Rank: Second Lieutenant Date of Death:20/07/1916 Age:19 Regiment/Service:Devonshire Regiment 8th Bn. Grave Reference: XIV. B. 7. Cemetery:CATERPILLAR VALLEY CEMETERY, LONGUEVAL Additional Information:Son of William Elias and Hannah Mary Rundle, of 107, Townshend Avenue, Devonport. Horace Joseph Rank:Second Lieutenant Date of Death:20/07/1916 Age:36 Regiment/Service:Devonshire Regiment 8th Bn. Panel Reference: Pier and Face 1 C. Memorial:THIEPVAL MEMORIAL Additional Information:Son of Walter and Alice Joseph Does either of these names ring a bell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 I tended to discount Horace Joseph as the photo looks like it was taken in an established cemetery and the family wreath gave me the impression that it was post-war. Both have files at the National Archives. There are two possible Organ / Rundle marriages on FreeBMD, both in Devonport RD. Unfortunately I can't follow them up and both entries have four names: June Qu. 1899 - Albert James Organ and Ethel Rundle Sept. Qu. 1907 - Samuel Sidney Organ and Emily Helena Rundle Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 44 minutes ago, Phil Evans said: I tended to discount Horace Joseph as the photo looks like it was taken in an established cemetery and the family wreath gave me the impression that it was post-war. Both have files at the National Archives. There are two possible Organ / Rundle marriages on FreeBMD, both in Devonport RD. Unfortunately I can't follow them up and both entries have four names: June Qu. 1899 - Albert James Organ and Ethel Rundle Sept. Qu. 1907 - Samuel Sidney Organ and Emily Helena Rundle Phil It looks to me like: Francis Charles Organ married Gladys Booley in 1911 Francis Organ may be the F C Organ at Devnport in 1911 as a 22 yr old (born 1889). Son of Francis and Bessie Organ, resident in Stoke-Damerel in 1901. Francis Organ married Bessie Hockin in 1888. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler Posted 28 September , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2016 More detailed upload. However the image is still pretty bad I'm afraid. The information about the Organ/Rundle relationship is interesting although I have no matches in my tree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 Looks like Army Service Corps (but I may be wrong) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Chandler said: More detailed upload. However the image is still pretty bad I'm afraid. The information about the Organ/Rundle relationship is interesting although I have no matches in my tree Horace L Rundle was born in Liskeard in March 1897 but baptised in Stoke Damarel in 1903. His father, W E Rundle married Hannah Mary in 1895 in Liskeard William E Rundle was born in 1866 in Stoke Damarel Craig Edited 28 September , 2016 by ss002d6252 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler Posted 28 September , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2016 Thanks very much for all this. It gives me something to cwork on for verification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Evans Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 There is a photo of him as a boy here. A shame the naval officer is not named. Do any of the other names ring a bell? Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler Posted 28 September , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2016 Interestingly the Hockings links up. Gladys Booley's Aunt, Phillipa Booley (1845-1889) married Thomas Hocking (1833-1911) who had children John Thomas Hocking (1872-), William Henry Hocking (1875-), Rosina Hocking(1876-), Charles Boley Hocking(1883-) and Phillipa Hocking (1886-) As this was an Aunt of my Great Grandmother I had never investiagted in more detail. Jack Hocking "could" be John Thomas Hocking. He would be in his thirties when the photo was taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 1 hour ago, delta said: Looks like Army Service Corps (but I may be wrong) Yes it could be. It certainly looks like an 8 pointed star. The crown on the top point isn't too clear though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandler Posted 28 September , 2016 Author Share Posted 28 September , 2016 (edited) Based upon the other facts, I'd say Devonshire is more likely. This was also an 8 pointed star (well actually 7 points and a crown). The picture is not refined enough to confirm the middle. Below is an example Edited 28 September , 2016 by Chandler Missing note Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dai Bach y Sowldiwr Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 1 minute ago, Chandler said: Based upon the other facts, I'd say Devonshire is more likely. This was also an 8 pointed star (well actually 7 points and a crown). The picture is not refined enough to confirm the middle. Yes indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 28 September , 2016 Share Posted 28 September , 2016 I'd accept that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 1 January , 2017 Share Posted 1 January , 2017 I have an interest in the Rundle family, at this time Horace Liberty Rundle 1897 in particular. The photograph you posted could well be him as your Gt Grandfather, Francis 1889 was living at Haddington Road in 1891 and Horace was living at Wilton Road in 1901, his mother was a schoolmistress. This could be how they became acquainted. The two addresses are no more than a mile apart. I do not which school she taught at but it could be that Hannah Mary Rundle nee Tippett, Horace`s mother would have taught either Francis or his siblings. This, I feel, is a fairly strong circumstantial connection. The photograph shows a person who looks admittedly older than 19 years but too young to be the 36 year old Horace Joseph. Both men were MIA in Battle Reports H L Rundle was buried Longueval Joseph commemorated at Thiepval this tends to suggest that Rundle was recovered,( he is reported wounded in the Western Daily Press 1st August 1916 ) and that Joseph was not , as Thiepval in the main Commemorates those not recovered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BullerTurner Posted 5 January , 2017 Share Posted 5 January , 2017 Having recently had some experience trying to determine regiments from crowned star cap-badges/collar dogs, in bad bad pictures, I think you have a Devonshire badge there. It looks like the castle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 March , 2018 Share Posted 20 March , 2018 This is my mother"s first cousin, Horace Liberty Rundle, 8th Battalion, Devonshire Regt. His mother Hannah Tippett was my gt. Aunt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 21 March , 2018 Share Posted 21 March , 2018 I have his cap badge and a copy of the photo of him as a boy at my grandparents' wedding in Cornwall. My grandfather, the groom was a naval officer, trained in signals and became Head Schoolmaster at Devonport. Horace was an only child and when he was killed on 20th July 1916 at High Wood on the Somme the whole family was devastated, according to my mum. It's great to see the photos on here as I only have a tiny one of him in his uniform which is very faded and torn. He was a 2nd Lt. only 19, with the promise of a scholarship to Oxford. So tragic, like so many others. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perth Digger Posted 29 September , 2018 Share Posted 29 September , 2018 (edited) May I add a bit more here about Horace Rundle? He was reported missing on 20 July 1916 according to the Supplementary Enquiry List of 15 September 1916 (for Red Cross volunteer inquirers). According to the Effects Registers, his death was officially accepted in February 1917 as having happened on 20 July 1916 and the WO began to deal with his financial affairs in February 1917. No trace of him had been found at that point. However, it looks as if his remains were found in August or September 1917 as he was officially reported killed (Western Times, 22 September 1917). After the war his grave was found with a GRU cross on it at Map Reference 57C.S.10.b.5.9 and in 1920 it was concentrated in Caterpillar Cemetery. The wonderful photo of the grave would, therefore, have been taken after December 1920, I think. Horace Joseph was a merchant from Melbourne, Australia. Mike Edited 29 September , 2018 by Perth Digger Wrong information taken out & more added Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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