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French M15 WW1 Helmet, Real or Fake?


Chickenpuffball

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This is my first post on this forum so I'm not sure if anyone here specializes in helmets but here goes nothing! I recently ordered a French M15 Adrian helmet and I want to know if the shell is original. The chinstrap is a reproduction and the liner is Italian (I'm not sure if it's period). Thanks in advance for your reply! :)

 

Pictures: 

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Edited by Chickenpuffball
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If it's not an original shell, then someone has done a VERY good job with it!

 

The paintwork looks nicely aged (worn!) and appears to be a decent and correct mid -war version of the colour. There are decent copies out there, but they are pretty easy to spot due to their 'newness' and are (often) a little too light in colour even for an early version (they are made, on the whole, for the re-enactor market and , so, are designed to look a little newer than 100 years old!). On the infantry/cavalry versions of these copies, the insignia appears to ride a little higher than that of the originals too. Yours appears to be in the correct location.

 

Are there any visible stampings inside (usually faded due to age as they were indelibly ink stamped rather than metal stamped)? I also presume that yours is magnetic (though some of the copies are, too)?

 

Dave

 

 

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1 hour ago, CROONAERT said:

If it's not an original shell, then someone has done a VERY good job with it!

 

The paintwork looks nicely aged (worn!) and appears to be a decent and correct mid -war version of the colour. There are decent copies out there, but they are pretty easy to spot due to their 'newness' and are (often) a little too light in colour even for an early version (they are made, on the whole, for the re-enactor market and , so, are designed to look a little newer than 100 years old!). On the infantry/cavalry versions of these copies, the insignia appears to ride a little higher than that of the originals too. Yours appears to be in the correct location.

 

Are there any visible stampings inside (usually faded due to age as they were indelibly ink stamped rather than metal stamped)? I also presume that yours is magnetic (though some of the copies are, too)?

 

Dave

 

 

I searched inside (with the liner on, it seems to be fastened really well) and I couldn't find any stamps. I'll take the liner out tomorrow. The helmet is magnetic, I checked to see if it's made of steel with a refrigerator magnet! Thanks for your response by the way. :)

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Lovely shell. Nothing wrong in my opinion. Be nicer without liner. Verticals rivets at side. Some have none and others at 45 degrees. I would have the shell in my collection.

 

Regards

 

TT

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Yes, can't see any problem with the shell either. The original lighter blue looks to be overpainted with the mid war dark blue as Dave said, which is absolutely right. I have a small collection of these now, and it is the badges I worry about more. If it is clear from the paint matches that they belong together then no probs.

Cheers,

Tony

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On 9/26/2016 at 15:39, msdt said:

Yes, can't see any problem with the shell either. The original lighter blue looks to be overpainted with the mid war dark blue as Dave said, which is absolutely right. I have a small collection of these now, and it is the badges I worry about more. If it is clear from the paint matches that they belong together then no probs.

Cheers,

Tony

Yeah, they match. Just checking, the badge is infantry, correct? 

On 9/25/2016 at 03:27, trenchtrotter said:

Lovely shell. Nothing wrong in my opinion. Be nicer without liner. Verticals rivets at side. Some have none and others at 45 degrees. I would have the shell in my collection.

 

Regards

 

TT

Thank you! :D

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2 minutes ago, Chickenpuffball said:

... Just checking, the badge is infantry, correct? 

 

 

Infantry, cavalry, train d'equippages and the service automobile, yes. (The gendarmerie had the same at first , but with a white or silver grenade. Not sure whether the douaniers had a white grenade too, or whether it was blue like the helmet)

 

Dave

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1 minute ago, CROONAERT said:

 

Infantry, cavalry, train d'equippages and the service automobile, yes. (The gendarmerie had the same at first , but with a white or silver grenade. Not sure whether the douaniers had a white grenade too, or whether it was blue like the helmet)

 

Dave

Thank you! I'm assuming it's infantry because they were definitely more common. 

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I bought a pair of Adrian's a couple of weeks ago, and I would appeciate others thoughts on them. I will take some pics this weekend and start a new post.

Cheers,

Tony

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8 hours ago, msdt said:

I bought a pair of Adrian's a couple of weeks ago, and I would appeciate others thoughts on them.

 

As a rule of thumb, if an Adrian of a more common variety looks right and feels right, then there's a 95% + certainty that it IS right! (Until relatively recently, some replicas were even more expensive than some originals!). The replicas are pretty easy to discern to be honest and even an 'aged' version usually feels different (and even looks slightly different). Renovated originals are a different matter, but even these have an unnatural 'newness' about them.

 

Rarer patterns (especially where they have been made up from original parts) really do sometimes have to be physically checked and closely examined in person and authenticity cannot really be decided using just photographs.

 

Dave

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Also if. Badge and shell paint different doesn't mean it's wrong or a marriage.

 

TT

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  • 1 month later...

I decided to (purposely) obtain a repro Adrian the other day simply for the purpose of comparison.

 

I got a pretty good one I think, but there are so many differences (especially the badge.... it's awful!) that I don't think that anyone should have any fear of mistakenly purchasing one. It's magnetic, correct weight and pretty robust....certainly fit for the purpose that it's designed (re-enactment I presume?).   Very well made, but slightly more 'amateurish' internally wherever there is a metal edge - especially noticeable at the rolled brim.

 

Funny thing is, it cost more than any of the last three (genuine) Adrians that I bought!!! If you've ever handled a genuine Adrian, then I don't think that there's anything to worry about in the repro Adrian world (yet!) .... other than badges of course, but that's a different story!!!!

 

Anyway, here are some images of the repro next to a genuine (untouched) version for comparison...

 

Dave.

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg

Edited by CROONAERT
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  • 4 weeks later...
On 11/24/2016 at 18:13, CROONAERT said:

I decided to (purposely) obtain a repro Adrian the other day simply for the purpose of comparison.

 

I got a pretty good one I think, but there are so many differences (especially the badge.... it's awful!) that I don't think that anyone should have any fear of mistakenly purchasing one. It's magnetic, correct weight and pretty robust....certainly fit for the purpose that it's designed (re-enactment I presume?).   Very well made, but slightly more 'amateurish' internally wherever there is a metal edge - especially noticeable at the rolled brim.

 

Funny thing is, it cost more than any of the last three (genuine) Adrians that I bought!!! If you've ever handled a genuine Adrian, then I don't think that there's anything to worry about in the repro Adrian world (yet!) .... other than badges of course, but that's a different story!!!!

 

Anyway, here are some images of the repro next to a genuine (untouched) version for comparison...

 

Dave.

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg

Thank you for your comparison! It's interesting that the repro costed more than the original, I guess there is a bigger market for re-enactors than collectors.

On 11/25/2016 at 00:05, Tony N said:

Just to add to Dave's post, here's a cracking site showing manufacturer's differences of original Adrian helmets including colours, chinstraps and badge variations http://www.world-war-helmets.com/fiche.php?q=Casque-Francais-Adrian-Mle-15

 

Tony

Thanks for the website, good stuff. :)

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13 hours ago, Chickenpuffball said:

...It's interesting that the repro costed more than the original, I guess there is a bigger market for re-enactors than collectors....

 

Nah!... it's just that I'm a stingy git who will never pay the 'going rate' for militaria and will only purchase if its an absolute bargain! :P:D

 

If I was to pay the 'going rate' then the price of the replica would roughly equate to the price of a bog-standard, rough(ish) genuine infantry model with a low(ish) percentage of original paintwork. Decent condition Adrians' prices will generally be more than that of the repro.

 

Dave

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