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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Officers' Sidearms (semi-auto pistols)


4thGordons

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Many will know my main interest is in British rifles, most Enfields, an interest that has broadened over time to include WWI bolt action rifles more generally. After 20+ years of collecting I have all the "low hanging fruit" and while upgrades in examples are possible most of the obvious gaps in my collection are now well beyond my financial grasp. As a result, over the past couple of years I have been picking up odd examples of semi automatic pistols which were just coming on the scene at the turn of the century. I thought I would share a couple of examples. While the UK and US emphasizes large calibre revolvers and automatics (Webley, 1911 etc) many continental armies seem to have adopted smaller calibre semi-auto pistols earlier. Anyway, I finally got around to taking a couple of pictures. As with the rest of my collection most of these are representative examples rather than perfect specimens!

 

9-21-13.jpg9-21-14.jpg

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and a very battered Mauser M1914 (with Military issue marks)

9-21-1.jpg9-21-2.jpg

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Here's my 1914, complete with matching holster.

They really are a well made pistol.

Where would one find military marks on these?

Interestingly it carry's British post 54 proof marks.

020-1.jpg

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A nice collection of fine old handguns!

I have always admired the workmanship that went into building the handguns of this era.

 

Gene

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4 hours ago, GDU said:

Where would one find military marks on these?

 

 

I believe they are usually stamped with a proof mark behind the rear sight and an acceptance stamp just forward of it (looking down from above)

Chris

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Here is my WW1 British Officer's Harrington & Richardson .32 calibre self-loading semi-automatic pistol & rig.
Production of this pistol commenced on 29th April 1916, with 34,500 being produced.
Mine is the Type 1, of which only 1760 were made before the Type 2 was introduced.
The Type 1 has 12 serrated finger grips on the rear of the breechslide, whereas the Type 2 has 16 serrations.
This pistol has British markings, and would have been a British Officer's private purchase side-arm.
 
LF

H&R.32 resting on holster use..jpg

H&R.32 with mag out..jpg

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What are the  British marking LF? I have seen several of these H&R Webley copies around but passed them up as I don't know enough about them. The serration information is helpful (I had to read up on the M1910/4 Mauser to make sure I got a wartime one, there are loads of variations in serrations and manufacturer address etc) what form to the British markings take? Are they UK proofed or marked by the retailer in some way, or do they have "official" inspection/issue marks?)

 

Three of mine came with period holsters and although they fit the weapons well I am not entirely sure they are all original issue.

 

The eagle eyed amongst you will have noticed that the Savage is missing the lanyard ring which is one of the identifying features (along with serial # block etc)  of the French contract pistols.

 

Chris

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18 minutes ago, 4thGordons said:

What are the  British marking LF?

 

Chris,

 

Although this pistol was made in America by Harrington & Richardson under licence from Webley & Scott, it has no American markings, which confirms it was shipped directly to GB for sale in GB.

The pistol's action is marked with both a ' Crown/GP ' being the proof mark for the Worshipful Company of Gunmakers of the City of London, and ' Crown/V ' being the View Mark/Inspector's proof mark for the London Proof House.

The breechslide and the rear of the frame are also ' Crown/V ' View/Inspection marked.

The breechslide and the underside of the barrel both have matching serial numbers.


The .32 H & R is slightly larger than it's .32 Webley & Scott counterpart, is of higher quality and has more features than the Webley, the most noticeable additional features being that unlike the Webley, the H & R has no hammer, being a striker fired pistol, which would certainly have appealed to Officers at the front, no dirty or damaged hammer to worry about. Also in addition to the conventional safety catch, the H & R has a grip safety lever fitted to the rear of the pistol's grip which is activated by the user's hand.

There is also a loaded cartridge indicator, in the form of a small pin which projects through the top surface of the breechslide when a round is chambered.

 

In all a fine semi-automatic pistol, and this one appears to be in mint unfired condition.

 

Regards,

LF

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I owned and regularly shot a minty Browning 1910 for a number of years in the '80s. It was a very nicely-made and reliable pistol, digesting a variety of experimental handloads without failures. The one functional difficulty was the heavy trigger pull, which proved impossible to ease for accuracy without serious risk, so I ended up not seriously attempting it. 

 

Trying to chronograph one of my handloads, I put a .32 through the instrument's body, killing it instantaneously. Fortunately it turned out to have severed only a single wire, so resurrection was also quick - but not enough to stop me getting a 'Chrono Shoot' wooden spoon award at the club's annual prizegiving... still got it somewhere :D .

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Interesting maybe to some?

 

In the UK, during the 1960's and 70's, literally thousands of these guns turned up on the black market as veterans passed away. very common were the Dreyse and Walther model 4.

Of the ones that were made 'legal' , all carry post 1954 proofmarks and most have the so called 'secret proof house marks' denoting which proofmaster (or assistant) did the actual proof test and the year it was done. this takes the form of an extremely tiny circle discretely stamped with codes providing the information.

 

During the firearms amnesty of 1968, a police officer of dubious honesty from Yorkshire sold a large amount of handed in weapons on the black market. The home office refused to declare how many and declined to enter the number in the firearms statistics for that year ' as the figures would grossly distort the record'

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